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Adley sure made me feel badly for trading him. Reached base safely 6 times today. Accrued almost 6% of last years point total on Opening Day.
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I can’t see all of Ottavino, Robertson, Scherzer, Carrasco making it through the season. Most of their pitchers are old enough to run for president!
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Verlander just hit the IL so that's a nice start on your prediction.
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On pitching, Mets having overwhelming old starters and bull pen. Diaz is one of the few young pitchers and he is out for season. I would argue their pitching built like last years lakers and you should expect regression and more injuries . On bats, there is a huge talent drop off after Mets Top 5. They have small room for under performance from their top 5. Phillies I just think will be World Series fatigue and no Harper or Hoskins
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I would bet so much money that both the Mets and Philles win at least 10 more games than the Nationals.
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Mets and Phillies I think are in bad shape.
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Yeah believing the Nationals will be good and the NL East will be terrible is a pretty bold take. I think it is much more likely that 3 NL East teams make the playoffs and the Nats lose almost 100 games, but you never know!
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I like Arizona as a much-improved team this year, maybe even a wild card team. Tough to see them beating out both SD and LAD in my view.
Devon, if the Nats win the east, you can have the best player on my team. Good luck!
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🤣🤣🤣 I think the A’s are within margin of error of 500 this year.
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Nationals will compete with A’s and Pirates for worst team in the league. Probably all lose 100+ games. I think the Reds will be improved and get out of that undesirable club.
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I think NL East will be terrible this year
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Hahah I’m luckily not a nationals fan. I just think the nationals are being overlooked and Mets Phillies could be in for major regression. Atlanta should have easy path, if It was gambling would gamble on Atlanta.
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I can't see that happening this year, maybe a couple of years down the road with all the good young plaers they got from trades, but I applaud your support to them, they have to be your team with that optimistic prediction. I agree with the five other teams, but I would put Atlanta in there
Boo Birds on
March 29, 2023 4:42 PM
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Yeah I will be amazed if the Nationals are not last place in the East. I agree they will be better than last year, but I don't see them getting to 70 wins.
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I'd like to give my award for the boldest prediction before Opening Day this year to Devon. If the Nats take the NL East, he should be regarded as a prophet.
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Division winners:
Arizona
St Louis
Washington DC
Seattle
Twin cities
Toronto
I think Colorado, Nationals and Oakland are going to be most improved. Nationals winning division would need my prediction that Mets, Phillies, and braves underwhelm. I think nationals can’t get to 100 wins, but should be major improvement
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Division winners:
Toronto
Minnesota
Seattle
Atlanta
Milwaukee
LA Dodgers
Toronto beats the Dodgers for the World Series
Not very confident in the WS prediction.
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A minimum cap is bullying 🤣🤣. If I owned a team in real life I would genuinely be like the Oakland A’s spending wise.
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That way there would be less dollars flying around so it would be much more difficult for a team to get over the $600 threshold.
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I was just kidding regarding a proposed rule change, I'm just a little bitter being left in the dust. You all are right regarding rules changes not being retroactive. I also agree that having the draft early did encourage this trade activity. I do think it is a great feature of Ottoneu that you can trade cheap young players/prospects for stars.
But since may half jest gained some well thought out debate, another way to keep salaries in line is require teams to have a minimum cap numbe
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Yeah aka big papi legend
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Good insight Walnut! I definitely like a tiered idea of giving more flexibility as the season goes on, but we can get a handful of ideas together and vote on what will be best (even if that is do nothing).
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Definitely want to make sure it is clear I wasn't trying to imply he shouldn't be owning that many teams by my questions, just legitimately amazed and curious how you manage all that! I recently cut back from 6 leagues to 3 leagues (2 Ottoneu) because I felt I wasn't able to give 6 different leagues enough attention!
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Also said "We have consistently around 6 or 7 teams that are still in it around August. Very competitive. There are still trades but not the huge blow everyone out of the water trades. In fact, the last 2 runaway victories were pre-rule change. All the current owners really love this league." So maybe not exactly this but something along these lines could make sense. Maybe a limit on loans from the auction until some point in the season & a second limit after that? Just spitbal
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I got this feedback from an owner in another league: "we had some clashes over this way back in 2017. We initially had some coupon penalties associated with taking on too much loans. Now we just have a $50 net loans cap. But of course, the modifications make us ineligible for OPL & there's only 1 or 2 teams that care about that." "We got rid of the coupons but swapped the tiered loan limits with a single $50 net outgoing minus incoming loans limit. Easy for everyone to re
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Yeah Big Papi has always been responsive, active and engaged in all my interactions with him as well. Much more so than owners with only one or two teams in many cases. I would imagine it would take hours every day in season to manage lineups and trades, that is some commitment! And agree we should keep track of all the ideas that we can brainstorm to figure out a good and fair path going forward.
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WBGS (AKA Big Papi) has proven to be a good, active owner in the leagues I'm in with him and is an inspiration to all of us who own "too many" teams. Niv likes him too.
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You own 132 teams!? I have questions... How? Why? Are you okay?
But seriously, why do you own such an outrageous number of teams and how can you possibly keep up with that many? Keeping lineups set all season for just a couple of teams is a commitment.
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Wow, I didn't realize. I looked at your profile when we traded in another league because I appreciate knowing how many teams someone manages.
Your number blows my mind. At first, I just assumed there was some error.
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By the way for people who know me, I'm AKA Big Papi memories or AKA Big Papi
Boo Birds on
March 16, 2023 4:53 PM
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I volunteer to make kind of spreadsheet with the different ideas discussed below, weighing factor so we can give it some shape. If you have other thoughts, send them in, I will add them, will not rule anything out, everything is going to be there for us to discuss at one point
Boo Birds on
March 16, 2023 4:52 PM
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I'm in agreement with Tumbleweed Futures about keeping a list of today's thoughts and then addressing them after we see how the season plays out.
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It’s the commissioners world, we’re all just living in it!
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I also agree with Flying Squirrels that money doesn't always buy championships. Since we shouldn't do anything retroactively, is there a way we can systematically track some of these suggestions and discuss them at a point during the year before potentially making any adjustments? Maybe that's not needed, but for me it's hard to keep track of all the suggestions on a message board. I'd also be interested in the process for approving a change.
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Let me just say first off that I really enjoy this league and the level of respectful discourse engaged in below is one of the prime reasons why. I hold no animosity or judgement towards the character or judgement of any of our owners. Everyone's trades fall within Ottoneu's rules. That being said, I would support some small adjustments for future seasons. I think Spa and Racob got it right that part of this was probably fueled by the early draft.
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I also would argue that to a degree loans are part of what helps keep Ottoneu balanced. Walnut had a much better team than me coming into the year (and still has a better team than me), without the ability to trade my lower salary high surplus players for higher priced players I would have had a very difficult time building a team that could have a chance to contend with him.
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I think the fact that loans go away in the offseason and your cap resets to force you to get under $400 - empty roster slots helps even things out some, and would agree the issue seems to be more with the timing of the trades than anything. I think it would make sense if we did something to try to curb big loan deals from after the auction until maybe sometime in May since that is when a lot of teams make their initial evaluations about their position in the standings?
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I think the fact that loans go away in the offseason and your cap resets to force you to get under $400 - empty roster slots helps even things out some, and would agree the issue seems to be more with the timing of the trades than anything. I think it would make sense if we did something to try to curb big loan deals from after the auction until maybe sometime in May since that is when a lot of teams make their initial evaluations about their position in the standings?
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I would argue against the sentiment "championships should be more determined with decisions made all year". In order to get to this place I had to have a very quality team built with players that have surplus value that I was then able to trade for higher priced players. It isn't like this is some cheat code either, I have had teams with over $600 in salary not even finish in the top half of the league before.
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I get a fair amount of trades that have better surplus value than my stars, but surplus doesn't win leagues and you can only play so many guys with the games and innings limits, so you need those studs.
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Totally legit strategy all around. I still say it’s the timing. Five and six hundred dollar budgets are not unusual amongst ottoneu league winners. Have a hard cap on team budgets until the break or first month or whatever can be agreed to and you preserve the strategy that makes ottoneu fun and keeps people engaged in this current year for a longer period of time. Also, this is the most civil discussion I’ve ever seen on the topic. Thank you!
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Maybe teams are too quick to build for the future or maybe we are undervaluing these top, albeit expensive, talents?
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I'm not sure how much of a fan I am of the idea of modified rules for one particular league like this, but it would be really nice to somehow curb this in the future. There can tend to be unintended consequences when doing things like that but definitely open to some changes that could help. I think the championships should be more determined with decisions made all year rather than just being able to swing a few big loan trades after auction and before the season.
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I am a participant in it but am not a big fan of this either. Not at all trying to pass blame but once I saw the $52 Cole trade and subsequent O'Neill/Williams trade I had to do something. I think I built up a great team and legit contender up to and immediately after the auction and couldn't just let that go to the wayside and sit by passively while another contender built up a monster team based on big loans. So I felt I had to respond with 2023 upgrades at the expense of surplus/future value.
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I agree that an early draft tends to lead to some dejection because of injuries. But that happens in season too and you generally try to work through it, so it shouldn't be any different now.
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Early draft date does accelerate the process I think. Love the early draft because it’s so boring from Jan 31 til the draft but maybe the downside is too much. Good idea. Maybe just holding the draft closer to opening day would be a simple idea for next year.
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Not all leagues but often enough that many of us have seen this conversation before. Pretty extreme example going on here this year. Definitely prefer the overall team type caps versus individual trade cap ideas whose spirit can be creatively circumvented and then require the commissioner to arbitrate disputes.
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How much do we think our early draft played into this? I know me and maybe a few others who traded for surplus originally planned to see how the season would start before making moves, but as more trades snowballed the power of the top teams weeks before opening day, that strategy made less and less sense. Or is this a problem in most leagues regardless of the draft day?
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That's interesting Cronengirth
Boo Birds on
March 16, 2023 3:14 PM
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We could also try to limit the amount of loan within a trade. Would make having room under your cap actually matter. Like limit it to $20 or something, it seems like these $40-50 loans enable these super teams.
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