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Not sure I agree with your conclusion there GC. Seeing how it has played out, anyone could come back and say "Yeah, sure... I thought it was improving my team for the future". He was asked to give his reasoning for the trade initially and stated quite clearly that his intention was to help another owner compete. In light of that, the veto was the correct outcome imo. If he had presented any kind of argument in favor of his side of the deal pre-veto, I would agree with you.
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That said, everyone has the right to value guys however they want. I didn’t follow your second explanation any better than I followed your first, but as long as you’re saying you did the deal to improve your team and not just to help a brother out, then I agree it should be allowed.
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All due respect KB, that argument is bananas. Franco is one of the handful of most valuable assets in any dynasty league - in many leagues he would literally be untouchable regardless of what the other team offered. There is absolutely no comparison with your trade.
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I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on Franco's value...I have it very high. Again, in my judgement as an owner (a good standing one I believe), I got the best return I could to ensure my team's competitiveness for years to come.
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If your telling me that franco (rookie) with 57 pa .. is a fair return for trout and nola and morton.. its the exact same trade value as what i just accepted..
Im Sorry,. I have an issue with this trade being accepted and not veto..
Its the same thing you all commented on. So then my trade with masterbaters needs to be accepted..
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I have to respectfully disagree, Bees. If you look at the most recent trades for Trout, Franco at $7 is certainly fair compensation. This is something I researched before making the deal and I fielded multiple offers. Czech is assuming a lot of risk on Trout's health. I've been in this league for 5 years with 1 win and 1 3rd. I always try to win, but this just isn't my year. If I can get a big piece like Franco at that price, it sets me up for future years of success.
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Also the trade that was just accepted in this leauge is unfair as well.. No one gives up trout for that little.. So this trade also needs to be veto and shouldnt be allowed to be made or your all hypocrates...
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I joined this league 1/4 of the season in.. So making trades like i made isnt collusion. I try to build a team from the ground up and some times that means starting from scratch and being on the bottom for a while
But it may take a few years to do so. So giving away guys like i did is really more so to reshape my roster for my future.. Players can be good one year and not good the next.. clint frazier has potential as does puk.
So i apologize if i caused a rift in the league.. not m
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Let me clarify my comments. Maybe help clarify just trying to "help some one win". Ive been in alot of leagues over the years and each league is different in their own sense.. In some leagues I have been in, no trades happen, no one is available in the draft so your often stuck in the same top 3 or bottom 3. So giving away talent doesnt happen.
In other leagues trades occur often, players are cut, you go to the draft with money .. and have a chance to get those players back. e
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I wouldn't really have an issue with the trade, but this is, at best, really odd... "Making a trade like this to maybe help some one else have a chance is my reasoning behind it." I don't think there's collusion or anything, but that line left me extremely puzzled.
Strick9 on
July 8, 2021 9:44 AM
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I don't need a crystal ball, I'm making a point about CURRENT market value (reinforced by the Ottoneu ownership stats I gave you). It doesn't mean they won't ever be good in the future, it just means their market value is not high at the moment. But none of this is anywhere near as relevant as the point Czech made, which is that KB's rationale for the trade didn't have anything to do with making his team better. Player valuations may vary, but everyone should be trying to make their team better.
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And I don’t know why he accepted the offer. What I do know is my offer is a reasonable offer. There is no collusion. I don’t know anyone in the league. He accepted the offer because he wanted to. You guys are trying to sell your opinion of players as a reason to cry about a trade made. Your opinion of a prospects future is irrelevant. Frazier and Puk are considered high level prospects still. My offer was way better than the shit offers I get proposed to me.
Las Piranhas on
July 6, 2021 10:16 PM
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Czech traded every injured player he has for current top players in game. I traded a .250 hitter for .250 hitter. Ray had an ERA over 7 last year. McCullers was injured. You don’t have a crystal ball. And you don’t get to pick and choose only players you see as prospects but ignore the rest. So Czech injured players having shoulder surgeries are different than Puk or Frazier recovering.
Las Piranhas on
July 6, 2021 10:09 PM
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GC-I didn’t know you had a crystal ball to know the value of 25 year old prospects for rest of year or next season at that. Puk and Frazier have had injuries this year. You have no idea if the skill set will be back this year or next. All players are valued differently. Adell sucked last year. Not even back up this year. Can’t even get back to majors with Trout down. Everyone’s opinion is different as to value or skill set of players.
Las Piranhas on
July 6, 2021 10:02 PM
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Well stated, GC. And, let's not forget that when I asked Killer Bees his reasoning, he stated he was trying to help MB compete. He didn't try to make an argument that the players he was receiving had equivalent value to the players he was giving up, either for this season or in the future. That approach will cause problems in the league if continued. I just want to make sure we can all agree that each owner should be trying to maximize his value in trades. Clearly, that was not the case here.
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To be clear, this is nothing like “the recent dump trades”. Those are the kind of trades that are supposed to happen in a keeper/dynasty league - out-of-contention teams trade a ton of present value for a ton of future value. It makes no sense from a 2021-only lens but makes all the sense in the world from a rebuild lens. Unfortunately those trades only work when present value is exchanged for actual future value, not for overpriced cut candidates.
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Carter Kieboom was also a highly ranked prospect a year ago. That’s irrelevant. Player values aren’t static. I had interest in Puk because of the pedigree, but he’s now posting a 9.00 ERA and 2.00 WHIP at AAA. I had interest in Frazier coming off a good couple months, but he hasn’t been good enough to hold down a starting job. They’d have to be kept at $8 apiece next year. No way they go for anywhere near that at auction barring huge rebounds, and it’s tough to rebound from the IL or AAA.
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Your trying the less than more than wording. They are both actually owned in the % of all Ottoneu leagues. Your implying one is owned in over 95% and the other only owned in 25%(which is not correct).
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And you should be wording that as they are owned in about 75% and 95% of Ottoneu leagues.
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Carriage-In January you sent offers interested in Puk and Frazier. 3 months in season and struggling with injury doesn’t make them trash. If someone is playing for next year because they don’t feel like they can catch up(kinda like the recent dump trades made) this year, then Frazier and Puk still have talent and value. They are both still young and were highly ranked prospects like a year ago.
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Frazier, Puk and Diaz are each owned in less than 75% of Ottoneu leagues. McCullers, Ray and Edman are each owned in more than 95% of Ottoneu leagues. I have a lot of respect for the wisdom of the Ottoneu crowd. This is pretty straightforward.
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Damaged goods? Pretty much the entire league sent me offers wanting Frazier before season started. He was one of my hottest assets. Puk is a former first round draft pick that is still young. And Diaz is a solid bat hitting in the four hole on a good TB team. If this trade was made before season, you would be crying the other way. With the ridiculous trades made the last month, this sure ain’t one to be bitching about. GTFOH!
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Yeah I don’t understand that at all. If you’re not trying to win this year, you make deals to try to win next year. And if that doesn’t apply to you because you’re thinking you may not play next year, better to drop the team now so someone who does want to win can take it over. It undermines the integrity of the league if people are making deals that are not in their best interests. People are here for friendly competition, so the best way to help out your league mates is to actually compete.
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I agree and I am in same place in standings and I only make trades that can help me I'm not in it for them
All Proofs on
July 6, 2021 11:55 AM
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With all due respect, that logic doesn't sit well with me. We all have invested $100 and most have invested considerable time trying to build the best roster we can. The integrity of the league depends on each team managing in their own best interests. Once you start arbitrarily trying to "help" other owners, it damages the integrity of the league.
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Half way through the season 40 points to make up is alot.. especially with the lack of super stars available. Making a trade like this to maybe help some one else have a chance is my reasoning behind it.
Abd others have offered me trades earlier in the year but i still had a chance.. i no longer seem to have a chance this year so im willing to help.. i have to ties to any one player in partiuclar..
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I agree I don't see how this trade resembles fair
All Proofs on
July 6, 2021 10:34 AM
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I feel the same, that’s a very one sided trade
Carver High on
July 6, 2021 10:28 AM
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I was wondering the same
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I'd love to hear the rationale behind this trade from Killer Bees' perspective. Looks like 3 damaged goods/cuts for 3 solid players to me. I know we all value players differently and I generally don't comment because of that, but this one really has me scratching my head... maybe I'm alone on that.
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i think its loosely aligned to a 'margin call'.
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theres not much free money available in the league, maybe it can induce some chaos cuts. i made an overture towards a team or two that had some cash and they werent interested. i wasnt interested in loaning out mookie, so to the open market he goes.
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I had him in a league for $74, I did same thing I had players doing just as well for much less and players costing that much are very hard to move and you know you get your money back
All Proofs on
June 11, 2021 8:45 AM
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Assuming he plans to use the money now, so its a gamble that he can get better players with the free $60 then the return in a trade
Carver High on
June 11, 2021 8:14 AM
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I’m trying to understand why would you waive Mookie Betts. You should at least offer him up to trade and get something in return for him. Hell, anything in return would be better than just cutting him. Confused!
Las Piranhas on
June 10, 2021 11:41 PM
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Looking for bats, not the wet market kind.
Starting pitching available.
Pretty much everyone but Degrom.
I will sell pitching for $$
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Welp, that was quick. Like I said... Welcome to the new owner of Killer Bee's!
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Just FYI, Killer Bee's has bowed out of the league, citing unbearable time commitments that left him unable to properly manage his team. It is currently up on the Ottoneu available teams list, fully paid for the current season. If you know of anyone who might be interested in joining, you may inform them, accordingly. Regardless, I imagine the team will be quickly scooped up, as franchises in these type of leagues are highly coveted. Just wanted to keep everyone in the loop.
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Then don’t have a waiver process before the season starts. Just send the player to free agent list. Let teams then bid on the player.
Las Piranhas on
March 22, 2021 11:49 PM
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And why would it make sense to break the tie in favor of the lower ranked team from the prior year? Imagine you’re in a head to head battle in the last week of September, and you and your competitor are both trying to stream every last SP you can, but he’s winning every tiebreak because he finished lower the prior year, I’m guessing you wouldn’t think that made a whole lot of sense either.
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Well that’s a dumb way to do it in my opinion.
Las Piranhas on
March 22, 2021 7:58 PM
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i think niv flips the coin. i've seen it asked if it can be streamed or something for verification, but i'm not sure these concerns are taken seriously.
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And who flipped the coin?
Las Piranhas on
March 20, 2021 4:06 PM
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Says coin flip. But that’s a stupid way to determine if so. I might understand if it were a live in person draft.
Las Piranhas on
March 20, 2021 4:06 PM
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Can someone explain how Lake Superior was able to win the waiver claim for Carter Kieboom??? What determines the winner. I’m lower in league standings from last year.
Las Piranhas on
March 20, 2021 4:03 PM
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Want to give a heads up, I will be traveling and trying to draft. I’ll do my best to keep up, but can’t promise I’ll be on top of it like I normally am. Sorry for any issues.
Las Piranhas on
March 12, 2021 7:11 PM
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👍🏽
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Just a friendly reminder, boys. Ottoneu $100 Old School Hardball auction draft is tomorrow night, 8p EST. Be there and come prepared to nominate. We will do our best to prevent "passing," but the pause and reset will make the night longer, so if we can all do our best to get a player up for bids in the 30 second time allotted, it will make for a smoother night for all. Look forward to seeing you in the draft room!
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I’d prefer Sun-Thur. evening myself.
Las Piranhas on
February 28, 2021 3:52 PM
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works for me
All Proofs on
February 20, 2021 1:44 PM
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