-
I'm out! If you guys want to trade me prospects lemme know! Gotta attended my highway blocking rally and then log another 4 hours at a different nursing home.
-
MJ has 6 NBA championships, Bird has 3. So, in this instance, you aren't actually taking the winner! Dang dude.
-
"It doesn't show how he shuts down everyone he covers or how he forces bad passes and turnovers." That's literally what advanced stats do!
-
I'll take the winner unless it's for fantasy leagues
-
But you can have your stats
-
Why couldn't he win until then? Because Larry Legend wouldn't allow it. Jordan's most famous game was his 63 PT game against Boston. We all remember the outcome of that game it was a Boston win
-
Back in my day anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that Bird in his prime was a better all around player than Jordan. But Jordan could dunk & he scored 40 a night and made sportscenter highlights everyday. He was on every commercial but he couldn't win until Bird couldn't play at a high level anymore.
-
Leonard's defense only translates to blocks & steals in the stat sheet. It doesn't show how he shuts down everyone he covers or how he forces bad passes and turnovers. It doesn't show how he smothers opponents and changes the momentum of a game. I haven't even mentioned his offense
-
Is it so hard for you guys to just agree to disagree? I like stats BUT there's a lot more to a game than just stats. I go by what I see. It doesn't mean I don't like Westbrook or Harden. It means I like Leonard for MVP. The other guys are hands down player of the year material but not my MVP. Guys with the best stats don't always win the award because there is more to the game than numbers
-
Nah, we're waiting till rush hour to block the highway. More than enough time to hear your next "back in my day" hot take.
-
Shouldn't you be out protesting or blocking a highway somewhere?
-
I have no issues with hearing your thoughts & opinions, it just sucks that Chris & I went to the trouble to research the topic, present our ideas with statistics and logic to back them up and just got "I farted & made a thought" typed back at us. I'd LOVE to hear an actual rebuttal from you, it'd be super interesting. You have very retarded opinions so hearing the thought behind them would be great. BTW I voted for Gary Johnson CAUSE I LOVE TO SMOKE WEED!
-
That's a typical response from someone who can't stand to hear someone else's thoughts, ideas & opinions. I'm guessing you probably voted for Hillary too.
-
His gyro could probably string together more coherent thoughts than you, Lou.
-
Your gyro probably could play better defense than some of these teams in the NBA during the regular season.
-
Most of use can't remember what we ate for lunch last week (I think I might have had a gyro? maybe?), let alone how 'intense' a run-of-the-mill basketball game 30 years ago was.
Great - now if I get a gyro next week there's no way the flavors will be as intense as 2 weeks ago! I'm doomed to a full life of disappointing gyros.
-
"I don't have recency bias" is a hell of a claim given that all humans have been scientifically shown to suffer from it. I recommend Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman for a great book that explores how prone to error, bias, and assumption all our brains out. You'd be surprised at how prone we all are to these types of judgement biases. It's why I think stats are so great - they give us an (imperfect) objective anchor to use in decision making.
-
So I took all 0.0 VORP players in 1985 (arbitrary choice but hey - it'll do). Their average PER (which is not a 'comparison to mean/replacement' stat) was 7.70. The same set of players (0.0 VORP) in 2017 has an average PER of 12.1. Granted, that doesn't account for defense but the idea that replacement level is worse in 2017 needs some serious evidence to back it up. This fiction that basketball used to be way better just doesn't hold up to any kind of objective scrutiny.
-
That's not true at all. I don't have recency bias...in fact, I'm 100 percent certain that almost every player in today's NFL is better than 1980's NFL. That said, the athletes of today's NBA are almost certainly better overall athletes than 30 years ago. The intensity isn't the same though. I went to games back then and I've been going to games ever since and it's not even close. When the playoffs start is when the intensity starts...that wasn't the case back then.
-
Recency bias is such a powerful drug. The 'older times' look better because you don't remember all the mediocre, low intensity basketball that was played. How could you? It was boring and 30 years ago. You see a game between two non-playoff teams today and you think 'low intensity' but there were hundreds of games just like that in the 1980s - they just don't get shown on ESPN Classic - just like you won't see a 2017 Magic - Suns game in 2037.
-
I think the fact that Westbrook is rated so highly above replacement value is because a replacement player in the current NBA is far less valuable than a replacement player in the 1980's. That said, I think Westbrook is an intense player and most certainly MVP this year...but I don't think an evolved NBA means that he's necessarily having the best season ever. Lou's right...today's regular season is not even close to as intense as a regular season game 25 years ago.
-
Me and #6 Organization have refuted all of your claims with facts and statistics. It would be cool if you would do the same so we could have an intelligent conversation versus just slinging hot takes.
-
Both the Rockets and Thunder are making the playoffs. These are not good stat guys on bad teams. Chamberlain and Manning both won two titles in their respective sports, so it's hard for me to accept your theories on players and their "team struggles".
-
The Dancin' Homers 's trade block has been updated!
-
As for LeBron, I love his game. He should have 10 MVPs but this year he's not the MVP and Cleveland will lose before the finals. I hope it's to the Celtics
-
This is pretty cool. I like the passion you guys have. It's nice to have this type of talk in the message board. By the way, I'd take a guy who wins over a guy who puts up stats and his team struggles any day. Like Brady over Manning or Russell over Chamberlain.... I'm trying to come up with a comparison for Bobby Orr but I'd take him over any hockey player ever.
-
"To many people base everything on stats" - A guy in an advanced stats fantasy baseball league
-
"he gets no respect" Kawhi is a 2x all-star, a 2x NBA-Defense first teamer, a 2x NBA defensive player of the year, is on one All-NBA team, one All-Defense 2nd NBA team and a NBA Finals MVP. In what universe is that "no respect"?
-
"If Leonard took 30-35 shots a night like Westbrook"... 2016-2017 Russell Westbrook takes 23.9 shots a game. Stats are a nice tool when used, you should try them instead of just assuming. Also, you are confusing stats with evaluation tools. The 40 yard dash and broad jump are metrics used to help teams evaluate players. They are not used in MVP voting.
-
To many people base everything on stats. Look at the NFL a player runs a fast 40 or has a high broad jump and he's a top pick. That's the trouble with stats. These teams fall in love with numbers and forget to judge the player on his ability to play the game. Sure Westbrook might average a triple double but why should that make him an automatic MVP?
-
If Leonard took 30-35 shots a night like Westbrook his numbers would be out of site. But because he has a balance to his game he gets no respect. he is the best defensive player in the league and one of the top 10 offensive players. I say MVP. I'd take him over Harden and Westbrook any day.
-
i don't base MVP on just stats. You can throw all the numbers you want at me I go by what I see and to me this seasons most consistent player on both ends of the floor is Leonard
-
7 outta 10 highest 3ptfg% have come in the last 10 years because teams don't play defense until the playoffs
-
It's between Westbrook & Harden. LeBron had his chance to claim it when Love went down, but when Love went down, so did the Cavs. That tells me Love is just as valuable, to a certain degree. Harden has the edge in my opinion. Whoever finishes higher, Rockets or Thunder, that player will win it.
-
You know what else MJ, Bird and Magic did do ever in their careers? Average a triple double. It's been done once. This is a special season. The sooner you realize sports evolve, the more fun you'll have watching them.
-
"Throw up a 3 point shot that he usually misses": 2016-17 is the 8th highest league average 3FG% season in NBA history and 7 of the top 10 have come in the last 10 years. This year is also the lowest turnover rate in NBA history.
-
"I wish they'd take away the forward pass to make fullbacks important again"
-
"No defense glamorized streetball" is just about the last way I'd characterize high level NBA basketball right now. Also, Westbrook is the only player with a PER over 30.0 this season and has a value over replacement level of 10+ (more than Magic or Bird ever achieved). He's the MVP if you want to use any kind of comprehensive statistical measure to make your decision.
-
Interesting take. Part of me feels like, with Leonard, it's just the novelty of an individual Spurs player feeling more essential than usual. If we're not going to vote LeBron as we should, then I'll take Westbrook. You can't not be an elevated source of turnovers when you are your team's offense. He goes overboard in trying to do everything, kind of Kobe-itis, but if he doesn't I dunno who else does on that team.
Tebow Forever on
March 28, 2017 10:09 PM
-
Nothing like some good basketball talk just before opening day. I just can't picture an MVP being someone who turns the ball over so much. How many of those turnovers if not made would have changed the outcome of the game? You can't tell me they don't hurt. That's why I like Leonard over everyone else
-
I'm watching Houston vs Golden State and they both remind me of watching the old Nuggets teams coached by Paul Westhead. I can't even guess how many 3pt shots have been missed in this game. It's a lot
-
Dunno Lou, sounds like extreme measures and change for the sake of it to me (like when they moved the 3 point line in). I'd be in for calling fouls like they did back in the 80s and letting them play more aggressive D. Didn't seem to slow teams down much then, and the current environment is an overreaction to the stupidity Riley got away with in New York on those Knicks teams.
-
so you're a big fan of the no defense glamorized streetball that the teams play today. I'm not a big fan of this but I love basketball too. I wish the NBA would move the 3point line back 4 feet, eliminate the sideline 3 point shot and make a shot from beyond half court worth 4 points. If they did this it would make centers important again. Im tired of seeing guys pass up a 15 foot shot and kick the ball out to a covered player who throws up a covered 3 that he usually misses
-
And for the record, if the question is ever "who is the NBA MVP?" then the answer is LeBron James for as long as LeBron James is active in the NBA. Any other answer indicates a weakness of mind and an inability to accept reality/greatness. The award is not for 2nd most valuable player. Yes I'm a Cavaliers fan and Clevelander by birth. Maybe you all shouldn't have shoved that Jordan/Ehlo highlight down my throat for 20+ years?
-
Dude, don't sell Harden short. He's got an outside shot at 500 turnovers!
-
Nurse, more morphine for my father, he's ranting about "his day" again.
-
Ok, dad
-
NBA MVP should be either the Spurs Leonard or the Celtics Thomas. If Harden or Westbrook win it it would be a travesty. Both will finish the season with over 400 turnovers. No MVP should ever turn the ball over that much. I never saw Bird, Magic or Jordan ever do that.
-
Walking Sticks's trade block has been updated!
-
Kings of Crash's trade block has been updated!
Previous 50 messages |
Next 50 messages