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I get that point, however I have brought it up numerous times, that I've found opposite reaction to the league I set up the new rules in another league. It actually hurts the rebuilding teams than it does to hurt the better teams. I'm open to ideas, but these changes have to be made in offseason.
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Bryce, it's not the perfect analogy but I liken my point to federal and state legislation. Because Ottoneu has chosen not to "regulate" on this issue, it doesn't prohibit the league from adopting rules to create the best league experience possible. Our separate 5-player prospect roster in a great example of that. Ultimately, this is your league to run as you see fit. I'm merely offering my perspective on how these developments impact the league experience for me.
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Quick Heads Up - I will be promoting the following MiLB Players to their MLB rosters. You have 48 hours to make your teams legal otherwise MiLB player is the one removed and auctioned.
Bulldogs - Bryson Stott
Bang the Drum - CJ Abrams
Funky Molina - Albert Abreu
Richfield Turkeys - Heliot Ramos
Core of Canucks - Josh Lowe
As I say every year, I'll do my best to keep an eye on the promotions, but please ping me if you see any that were promoted.
Shirts & Skenes on
April 10, 2022 9:08 PM
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My $0.02 is I have no issues with this most recent deal. It’s $12 - a pretty modest exchange.
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My $0.02 is I have no issues with this most recent deal. It’s $12 - a pretty modest exchange.
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I said I was done, didn’t I? Sorry
I love the passion in this league, but if the issues is going high on cap - at any point of season - than that’s an issue with Ottoneu. We’re all playing within the same rule set. These are moves anyone can make - and I encourage you to. Like I’ve said, I have yet to see modifications to the Ottoneu rules that successfully deter from going over cap.
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If I could choose from a manager not making any moves, trades, etc to one who makes moves that cause some controversy, I’m leaning towards the latter unless collusion is suspected.
Also in both cases the other manager speak up, so I’d welcome them to speak up to say their side if comfortable
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I will say to those who play in other Ottoneu leagues, caps exceeding $500 during season is not unusual.
Plus getting prospects at good salaries without giving up much is not an awful way to rebuild. And it’s very likely one or both come up this year so it’s not a long term rebuild
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My comments below are an over-simplification of the issues in play but this issue more intricate than can be contained in 500-characters.
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I have to push back on any activity being a positive, Bryce. Your integrity has never been in question for me and my concern has nothing to do with the players offered in either of these recent deals. We're ignoring how vital the $400 salary cap element is to Ottoneu. "Rebuilding trades" in Ottoneu aren't the same as other dynasty-based leagues. With deals like this in April, we're moving the focus from assembling the best team you can build for $400 to building the highest annual cap.
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Final note on this topic
I’m not saying you can’t veto - that’s what that feature is there for.
But I’m not going to make any drastic changes to the rules, especially during the season. We can discuss changes in off season for those who will continue with the league.
Look for a note later tonight (hopefully) regarding MiLB promotions, happening as soon as tonight.
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As commissioner my biggest issue has and always will be with inactivity. Trades of any shape or size is what I want as a league commish.
I proposed this framework to two teams, both with $70 cap space. I have up one too 100 prospect arm and another who was getting a lot of helium this off-season before being injured.
Buying those two guys using surplus of cash is a move I’d be happy with if it happened in the league without me.
Again activity = good.
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I play in dynasty leagues with salary caps in many different formats. I think Ottoneu allows people to circumvent this in manners similar to what has happened in these two trades, especially an issue this early in the season. I have watched a couple leagues fold in Ottoneu over this very issue. This is my last Ottoneu league and I would hate to drop over this, but, I can not agree that these trades were good for the league as a whole. You are giving up next to nothing.
WAR Generals on
April 10, 2022 7:35 PM
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And it was $12, not $16. But details…
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Also as Bulldogs said earlier - as there is no collusion, anything goes. Ottoneu has done a nice job to set up a good format where a variety of trades work. I will not tolerate collusion, and I can assure you this was not it.
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And I’m fine with people exercising their veto power, just know I am only offering trades and framework of trades that I would approve of as a fellow manager/commissioner.
Not trying to pull one over on anyone, just needing cap space and giving up two long term prospect arms for $16 seems fair to me.
But if the league speaks to veto it, that’s that!
Hopefully I’ll stay out of the trade doghouse for a few weeks now
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I also will veto this trade, for much the same reason.
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This will probably not be popular, but, building on the conversation that we had following the last trade. I am going to veto this trade as I will always be against pure selling of players to gain more cap space. For the same reasons I expressed currently. I believe that within reason we all signed up to compete in a balanced salary cap league. Attempts to gain serious advantage in what a team can afford over the rest of the league b/4 the season is a week old I believe is not best for all.
WAR Generals on
April 10, 2022 6:57 PM
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From a swim meet: Thanks!
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From backstage of a dance recital, Peña has been added.
Best commish ever
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Can you put Peña on my active roster? I might play him today, but I’m running out of time.
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Yes - that’s on me. This week has been a crazy busy week personally and apologize for not getting on this earlier
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I imagine most of you are like me and completely forget who is on the MiLB roster. Sorry I didn’t bring up Pena earlier.
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Please release Kiner-Falefa and bring up Peña to my active roster. Additionally, I noticed Abrams, Abreu, Stott and Lowe also are on our MiLB restricted list and probably should be brought up or released tomorrow.
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I think it would lower these extreme salaries in general and perhaps make it more expensive for these full year expanded salary cap deals to keep the extremes more fair. If a team is allowed to operate with a $500 cap compared to others, this alters the balance of play intended with a similar starting salary cap.
I will go with the majority, just wanted to toss this out.
WAR Generals on
April 6, 2022 11:34 AM
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We all probably realize that drafting players over say $55 is either a one year deal because they fit a specific last piece needed on your team, or, you are looking to trade them and also pay much of that salary in a trade dump. The higher that same salary the less that they can get back in return. I would love for us to agree that starting next year that we can only supplement half of a players salary in any deal. If we knew this going into the draft it would be fair to all.
WAR Generals on
April 6, 2022 11:31 AM
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If this behavior was an ongoing issue with this or any manager, we'd have a discussion. But as Bulldogs pointed out, Ottoneu as it's set up has a lot of rules to prevent anything crazy. I'm not going to be able to keep Harper (or if I do, I have to make other serious cuts). Other manager in my mind has 2 decent and cheap building blocks.
I'm open for discussion on this, but I just have not found a way to change rules that end up working as theorized.
Thanks for my rant and thanks for
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This manager put two high salary players on the block. I inquired, without asking why (info not needed from me to talk trade). We discussed names. Put together an offer and he accepted. Maybe he should have taken more offers? Maybe he should have waited? or maybe he felt this offer was strong enough (I've talked to another Ottonue manager in another league who liked the Carlson/Patino side more). I just don't think we can start making radical changes based on one trade
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I really appreciate the feedback from everyone, especially in such a respectful tone.
What I'll say, is this league is mature enough with several managers have been in this league for majority of the league's lifetime. At this point I would hope we have trust in our fellow managers that someone is purposefully sabotaging their team.
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Yes, you guessed it, these teams became inactive as the season went along. The 2 teams with $500 + payrolls soon grew even more and the competitiveness of that season sucked. This year 1/3rd of the teams dropped including me (I gave them a year's notice). I will not play in such a league if it becomes the std. Yes, it may match MLB, and that is not a good thing for them either. Here people will not play if the season is predetermined by such stacking. We need to be careful.
WAR Generals on
April 5, 2022 11:29 PM
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Been on the road and just had a chance to comment.
I left a league in Ottoneu because of this very thing. Before a game is played multiple teams were trading away any chance to be competitive before any games had been played. They were paying 100% of the salaries and we had two teams that had payrolls beyond $500 before the first game was played. I wrote a note similar to the one that started this. It was defended as building for 2-3 years out.
WAR Generals on
April 5, 2022 11:22 PM
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I am/have been Commish in numerous other leagues. When it comes to “lopsided” trades, I look at one factor: was there collusion? If I see no evidence of collusion, the trade goes through. Plain and simple.
Something everyone must understand: We all value players differently.
Ottoneu has BUILT-IN rules that cover just about everything. If we start making up new rules as we go along, the league will eventually suffer more damage than one or two trades that we all didn’t
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I vetoed. Extremely lopsided IMO. Carlson is a nice get, but Patino hasn't shown enough plus Rays love bullpen openers. Starters don't get enough innings. It's missing one big piece or two quality pieces.But if it goes through, I won't be upset over it
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I don’t want any of my previous messages to come across as combative - I just know issues like this come up a lot. How to keep a league competitive.
I welcome ideas, I am just speaking from experience where there was some unexpected consequences from initiating a rule we thought would help league parity.
Please speak up, don’t feel like you need to be silenced. As long as it’s respectful, I’m all ears
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This is the last I’ll say: I really e joy the leave, but trades like this make me enjoy the league far less. I wont speak again on this.
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I think mega trades like this one (at the beginning of the season) do far more harm to the league because team owners don’t think they can compete. If this makes it harder for three teams to trade, then maybe it lowers inflation for later. But trades like this turn off 10 teams from the outset
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One idea is those players you acquire that you had to take on a specific size loan ($30+?) you can’t keep next year.
And most times you wouldn’t anyway, but make it certain.
But again, then I wouldn’t go after the big guys in trades. And rebuilding teams with high salary players should get full value for those guys to help their rebuilding. They aren’t trading young guys or anyone with surplus
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Are we wanting to punish the buyer or seller? That’s my point. If we’re doing any of this, it’s hurting the seller’s ability to get maximum value for his non-keepers
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Or we could do a luxury tax. Every team that is above $420 at midnight of the trading deadline has to pay 10 percent the next year. This would be money added to the next season’s keepers. Take on $520 of salary, you get $10 added to your keepers. We could figure out how that is allocated. Or maybe we add the money to players after the auction?
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I still think any restrictions hurt selling teams. If they have a guy they know they aren’t keeping long term, the best way to get most value out of him is loan to cover his cost. If we’re limiting that ability, is much harder to trade
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We could have our own rule where trades have to be within 30 percent or 40 percent (or whatever) on money in or out.
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I will say we’ve tried a hard cap in other leagues, and actually hurts the selling team. If he wants to trade a $66 Harper, but other teams can’t exceed a set cap, that Harper is almost impossible to trade.
I can see the frustration of trade before season, I was just inquiring on guys he put on trade block
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I’m not going to veto, but I don’t love it. My main issue is the large loan so early in the season. I think things start to get out of whack when someone has $450+ in salary before the season even starts.
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I’m going to push the veto button on it, but I certainly won’t have hurt feelings if I’m the only one. Thanks, everyone, for putting up with my bothersome notes tonight. Have a wonderful Sunday.
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I appreciate you voicing your opinion in a very respectful manner!
I will say I inquired about Harper early on, he listed off a handful of players he liked, I picked two of them.
I also ran this past a friend of mine who plays in a few Ottoneu leagues and he would not have made this deal, from my side.
There is a veto button, if there are 6 votes to veto it is voided, so use your voice if you feel like you need to!
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I’m sorry to be *that* guy, but this recent trade agreement doesn’t seem balanced. This feels like a deal that typically would be made in the middle of the season, not the beginning. Even then, this would not feel like an even trade to me. I am certainly just one person, so I might be totally off base on this. I just wanted to voice my opposition. I’m totally happy to continue with life if no one else agrees with me. I enjoy this league and all of you. Good luck this season.
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Auction Draft has concluded and rosters are uploaded! Please double check to make sure all players are assigned to your team.
Free Agency and Trade period has now begun. Enjoy.
Thanks all!
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Funky and Bulldogs - you both have open spots but not nominating anyone. Please let me know ASAP if you’re done as-is so I can wrap up auction.
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I’ll be flying back home tomorrow, hope to have all rosters updated on Ottoneu by Monday morning.
I see a few teams have roster spots left. If that is intentional and you are done with auction, let me know.
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I'm done with the draft. I have one roster spot left, but I'll save it for now.
Fungo Follies on
March 26, 2022 10:18 AM
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