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Funny, you keep whining about the Yelich deal then... I also have never voted on any deal, as it every other league I'm im in its not even an option. But your deflection from question answers it. Thank you.
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Yes because Soroka is value at $8 and like 8 years younger and the team who dealt for Rizzo is clearly playing for this year. A very ordinary deal. Sorry, my question must not have been clear enough.
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A trade just went through in another league I am in - $37 Rizzo for $8 Soroka/$2 Dobnak with $27 loan. Big loans happen all the time . . . The loan evens available money for auctions.
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The more important question is I have never heard on a limit on loans.
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Sure, O have also seen the second best player traded for a hitter batting .174 and two single A prospects. Lots of people value players differently. I have Never vetoed a trade or whined this hard about one before.
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Be honest since you've played ottoneu a lot longer than I have. Have you ever seen a deal like this before? I'm not talking about trading a superstar for prospects and attaching cap. I'm talking about trading a 29 year stud and 2 solid starters for a 34 year old stud (arguably less valuable than best piece in the return) and also eating all the cap hit? Genuinely curious. If so, all for it going through, just seems odd.
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I will play by the salary cap number you give me. Veto the trade, I don't care. It would be better than listening to you all tell me how to value players and how Blackmon is in decline despite scoring 1,000 points the last four season and he is averaging 8.5 p/g this year.
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Like I said, every league I am in has a team with $575 salary cap at the end because they have traded prospects for a star. It is good for the league because winning team has to release most of those players and the losing teams get the good prospects. So how it plays out is I trade Kris Bryant for Dustin May, the team competing against me gives up Jo Adell for Yelich, etc. It makes it much harder to trade. I have never heard it done the way you all want to do it, so give me a number and
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I just made that trade with no loan. I’m not saying you can’t make loans but that is a sizable loan that dramatically changes team’s capabilities to compete.
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K/9 - Chicken is talking about dealing vets for prospects because you normally can't do it without big loans involved.
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I don't want to get too far down this road, especially with the teams involved in that Yelich trade. This is not real baseball; I believe Blackmon makes more competitive next year. The bigger question is the salary cap issue. It is a HUGE decision and one that needs clarification.
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I think I found the quote in this thread that sums this up best. “ Real baseball is the winning teams gives up prospects for a great player to push them to victory.” I can’t wait to read John Sickels’ mid-season report on Charlie Blackmon. Hopefully he makes an AFL roster.
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I dont think anyone is arguing dealing vets for prospects and vice versa, but that isnt this situation at all.
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Or whatever combo you want to equate to the 3 to 1 deal we've been discussing.
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The Royals traded Finnegan and Manaea (few other pieces) for Zobrist and Cueto. They didn't deal Salvy, Cain and Ventura for Yadi Molina.
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this is the last post . . . real baseball does not have a salary cap . . . it is just a creation to create a level playing field in fantasy to start the season, also why I believe it is reset every year.
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one last post and I am done, I promise. Just let me know where the line is drawn, so I don't pass it.
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which I think is good for the leagues. It lets bottom teams build for the future. If this league operates differently, just veto the trade.
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a team with a salary cap at $500 because they have traded a Dustin May/Jo Addell for Mike Trout along with a big loan.
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Like I said, I have never seen this way of doing a league before, so I had no idea. A team in one of my leauge's is at $515 in cap already. Real baseball is the winning teams gives up prospects for a great player to push them to victory. They don't worry about their salary cap - 2015 Royals is perfect example of this. If you lay out this argument, it makes more sense than screaming collusion. This is my 3rd year playing, and I am in 5 leagues now, and in every other one of them there is
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...a double-digit % boost to their salary cap we are not operating in good nature in the competitive balance that a capped league should provide. So, I voted to veto.
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...back $41 from the kitty and Bob would have to kick in another $41. You'd have actual salary relief. But we all pay $100 for $400 in cap room. There is no choice as an owner to pay more or to save your entry and try to compete on a shoestring, so it's in the competitive balance interest of the league for everyone to be +/- ten bucks or so of that salary cap. When leagues are decided because someone was first to a trade (not even 25% of the way into the season) that gives them...
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I'm not going to veto your trade but I did vote as a member of the league to veto it, which I hope others will. Largely because we have a cap of $400 and this skews it. If Chief then makes a similar trade with a similar loan to keep his lead then we have a couple teams at $440+ (10% over cap) and a couple teams more than 10% below cap. The whole notion of the cap is lost. Niv loves to insist that this is kept as close to "real baseball" as possible, but were that the case you'd have to
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I think its fair to say we both presented our evidence and neither of our minds will be changed.
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Collusion is a BIG jump to make.
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I just posted originally because the deal didn't pass the smell test, then you bring up a separate deal that called the worst deal you've ever seen. I'd say thats far more attacking than anything said on your deal. But I don't think you're a moron at all. I was accusing you of colluding not being stupid.
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Or should I just Ignore your collusion claims and agree with you like you are some kind of genius.
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**You are right!!
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You are K/9!! I did the trade then starting aggressively posting to you about it.
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Oh please don't play victim after being the aggressor for the most part.
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K/9 more than you Snell.
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You both are talking at me like I am a moron. I don’t appreciate. If you don’t like it or think it shifts the balance, then veto it. Plain and simple.
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I didn’t attack your trade. I explained my rationale and expressed that I don’t like large loans that shift the balance.
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I certainly hope you all veto it after all this shit you are giving me.
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I have a two year plan. Blackmon fits it. Is his production trailing off, at all?
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Geez. You are the ones attacking my trade.
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But hey, you're clearly the expert on value around here.
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As is the theoretical expectation of a 34 year outfielder continuing past production into the tail end of his career.
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We get it. You play a lot of Ottoneu. We’re not worthy.
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Mine is better. Instead of theoretical production back, I got a superstar back. One that fits my budget and rebuild plan. K/9 you might get it after your first year. OF is terrible to fill. Blackmon is one of, if not, the best value in this game. Position scarcity, production and salary considered.
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Trading superstars for younger players and prospects and covering the difference I'm sure happens all the time with teams out of contention (and makes total sense). As you noted with the 3 possible examples below, but that isn't what this is.
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If this league doesn’t work like this, let know. Another league I traded $3 Gore for $51 Harper with $48 loan.
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I get that. I just have a different opinion is all. I think there’s a cost as a contender when you want to take on additional salary and it’s your responsibility to cover it.
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So if someone trades a $3 Adell for $78 trout and loans $75, i wouldn’t bat an eye.
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I have never questioned and i think it is common because both teams have the same amount to spend on auctions after it.
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Good return on that trade
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Example, I traded $48 Bryant for $17 May, $6 Tucker and $7 Adames. I loaned $18 to cover Bryant. Like I said This happens in all my leagues regularly.
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I definitely understand the concept of why the loan exists. I just think when you start loading $30+ dollars people raise eyebrows.
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I’m not trying to be offensive just weighing in as my trade was fodder for discussion earlier. I don’t love your trade but wouldn’t say anything other than the fact that the loan shifts the balance of power. That’s all.
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So yes snell, in all my other leagues that is exactly what happens with Prospects and loans.
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