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I've unilaterally vetoed one trade in this league's history b/c it was made at like 6PM Friday night on a holiday weekend and it was like Stanton + some star SP + $80 for one prospect in like the 4th week of the season. I asked the two in the trade to re-submit when everyone is more likely paying attention on Tuesday. They cried on Slack. They did not re-submit the trade.
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Josh James, Fredy Peralta, Dylan Cease. I sense a trend.
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You win some you lose some on players. You should know that. There is no denying James' talent.
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I also wouldn't be so obviously enthusiastic about a 27 year old SP prospect that I let someone I've antagonized on a message board push me, just for fun, to bid $17 for him at auction, so again what do I know (shrug emoji).
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I also probably laughed the hardest in all this when you gave your very earnest praise to your own team and how you might be in the money this year. That was very cute.
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I am just happy you didn't unilaterally veto the trade. That was very big of you and your controlling nature Chicken. Thank you.
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If I was in 5 of the hundreds of Ottoneu leauges and 1/5, or 20% of my leagues, disliked large-scale loans I would probably not assume based on SSS and that 20% rate that no one anywhere ever except this lousy place dislikes large-scale loans early in the season. But I also would not trade three guys and $41 of cap space for a 34YO with a SLG 200 pts > his career avg, paying the highest price ever paid for that guy, buying high when he's for sure not improving, so what do I know.
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let the whole church say amen
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If you think I am bailing, your analysis there is as off as is it on Charlie Blackmon, buddy. I am in this league for the long haul.
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Maybe not as happy as Bob, but still.
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Hey, I'm just happy as long as you don't bail on the league after this year!
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Simple bud. You have to trade value to get value (normally). I gave up a player of value to get a player of value. This loan issue is blown way out of proportion and this the only league where you will get this line of thinking. Bob is no better with a cap of $430 if that extra money is going to Kershaw and Rosario because they aren't good Otto players. Your analysis shows you don't know what you are doing. I have no idea how you lucked into the Yelich trade.
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So wait.. I made a deal in which you feel I got a steal, but then again you're saying I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm confused, which is it?
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Good thing you didn't get rid of a player who also had 1,000+ points the last 4 years in the deal. I think it's fair to say we all wish you come back next year if that deal you made indeed wasn't collusion.
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Yaz for Yelich would actually be a more fair package than what you gave for Yelich. Blackmon has also been 1,000 plus for four years. But apparently you don't grasp numbers well and you are fixated on Blackmon's age and your weird idea he is not producing anymore. Good luck playing Otto buddy, I wish you the best.
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I see Mike Yazstremski is averaging 9 p/g. I wonder if Yelich could land him. I'd probably have to eat the $29 difference between the 2 to get it done. Maybe throw in a few other pieces.
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Sorry, should have checked Charlie is 10 p/g. Man, what a terrible trade. I really wish I had Kershaw and Rosario back.
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True. Much easier to beat than someone obsessed with small sample size.
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Chicken and I agree on one thing. Otto rebuilds are fast. Charlie will be the leader next year on Gambler's championship run. But just keep on telling yourself he is old and ignoring his 9 p/g, and keep telling yourself Single A prospects have value. It will just make you easier to beat.
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This will all be funny when you cut Blackmon and his $38 salary next year.
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Particularly in this league, in this year, in which CTI is taking the year off and there are 5 teams with $48 or more in cap space without involving a loan there is ample ability to compete without balooning your payroll to more than 10% over cap ~17% of the way into the season.
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Unwritten rules suggestion was Nuke, although I agreed. I now know that the trade wasn't veto and there is no number, so I will take it on an individual trade basis. Thanks.
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I agree re the minors, Nuke. We can discuss and put to a league vote. I also agree re caps, and would like to see something along the lines of 1. May not exceed $410 the first 20% of the season, 2. May not exceed $425 the second 30% of the season; 3. May not exceed $440 from the halfway point to the deadline, 4. May not exceed $460 from trade deadline to end of season.
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Ha. Nice way of looking at it. I think teams know they only need to veto it, abstaining is as good as approving. Sorry for disrupting the competitive balance - Kershaw's 4 p/i and Rosario 5 p/g is so robust it will take Bob straight to the top. And Blackmon is 35, so according to K/9, his production doesn't count.
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We don't have unwritten rules, Gambler, that's why no one is giving you a number. The only unique rule we have is made clear to all owners on joining: new owners pay immediately upon joining, regardless of time of year, and all returning owners must renew by 10 days after end of World Series--this is b/c we believe arbitration is relevant to next year, not the year that just ended, and want anyone who will play the team the following year to join and vote the arb.
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LOL Approved: 1 / Vetoed: 4 / Trade is approved!!! Guys can the other 7 of you please contribute. It's better if a BS trade goes through with > 20% of the vote.
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I'm sure my idea won't go anywhere, but the point was trying to mirror the actions of MLB. Usually don't see teams giving away high-end, well paid talent before July. Once midseason hits (and a lot of salary has already been paid), then things start to shake loose.
Not directly saying anything about your situation Gambler. Just throwing out my 2 cents and how it could be publicly stated for next season. If we need a clear rule, I like my idea and am open to others (including no restrictions)
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Completely agree with Nuke on the minors. Think it is crazy they add an arb dollar each year before debuting. Takes away advantage to owners who hit on lesser known security prospects
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I agree, whatever is decided should be made crystal clear to new owners. People don't mind playing in leagues with quirks about them, but it is best to know them before signing up.
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Also, I am not going to post my trades on the board and let some other people know who I am targeting. Part of the deal was I wanted a roster spot for Cease, who was on waivers. I couldn't say that, yet everyone is questioning the trade and I can't reveal that component of it.
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Right, I asked for a number, but haven't received anything concrete. It is also hard to make a rule midseason; and in a shortened season, every game is precious. Why would have to wait until 10 days before the deadline? Good fantasy teams make adjustments before they are in the cellar.
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But if this league has unwritten rules, we need to write them down. We renew every year and that's a great idea. Need to be clear about other expectations. Let's get this right and come to some agreement about how this works.
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I'm not crazy about a team adding more than 15% of the cap to their payroll in the first 1/4 of the season. I can understand some grumbling about that. Also like Chief Benders advice that if you post on the Trade Board, maybe you can give it 2-3 days before pulling the trigger.
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Don't think it's too hard to have that conversation. There are other things I'd like to have some league-wide agreement over. I think it's horseshit to add arbitration dollars to minor leagures before they make a MLB appearance. It's allowed in Ottoneu, but would like to have an informal agreement to not do that here.
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A lot of MLB contenders do a big trade at the deadline. Teams are definitely out of the playoffs at that point and trade off their assets that aren't coming back next year or the year after.
If we wanted to mirror that we'd have an informal "max cap" around 440 or so and keep it there until 10 days before the trade deadline. Contenders should have had the bulk of the season to reveal themselves and play on an equal footing. And at that point, the rebuilding teams would not be restri
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Bob wants Greinke and I am trying to make the money match for the sake of the league, but I guess I am just a jerk.
What are you going to do if this trade doesn’t get vetoed?
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You are the one complaining about loans about they make the league unbalanced. Not a single other Otto league is managed like this. I am trying to be nice and asking you to give me a limit to play by, and yet you insist on being a jackass.
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Mad bum with -41 for me tonight. Open to offers lol
Pirate Fan on
August 9, 2020 10:22 PM
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We don’t impose a rule. Because we don’t impose a rule and you act like there’s a rule means you’re kinda being a jerk.
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I don't disagree with your strategy, but if Rizzotto wants to deal Altuve because he is $43 and not in his future plans, he should be able to flip him for a younger asset with a loan involved.
Also, this is a MAJOR deal and a deviation from Otto rules, i.e. Niv could have easily put a cap on the amount that can be loaned. So, it is one thing to not believe in this way of doing things and imposing a rule that other teams can't do it.
I say this in kindness and not trying to be a jerk.
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Last thought: holding prospects and competing are not mutually exclusive. I'm 130 points from the money, hold 10 of the top 100 prospects. My core--Bryant, Betts, Turner, Story, Gleyber, Moncada, Verdugo, Eloy--I've owned since they were prospects/first year players. I can money this league this year and still finish the year with a bunch of prospects for next year on a $400 cap, so the notion that dealing an all-star is the best/only way to get prospects/rebuild is not a thing I believe in.
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My personal thoughts on that are that the rest of the league needs to do better to catch up to you. If you built a team around 5-6 core plays that were very smartly made over a couple years, then anyone who's like "I'll flip my prospects for $100 in studs and get $100 in loans so I can win" is an asterisk champ.
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Chief I disagree re loans helping rebuilders. Someone rebuilding (which in Otto, really only takes 1-2 years, it's not a major undertaking) can flip $70 Trout in the off-season.You won the league last year, impressively with a salary IIRC under $320. You lead the league now, with cap space to make such a trade without asking for and receiving a loan. That a lesser team needs a 10% boost to their salary cap to catch you means that your team was built that much better than the rest of the league.
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Thank you Bender. I hope Kershaw’s game last night proves why including him doesn’t matter. You also need to figure in that the trade allowed me to put a waiver claim in for Cease who has no. 2 upside if he can harness his command. I couldn’t say that yesterday.
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I don’t think it should be a given that big salaried players always get moved with full loans attached—if the buyer has room in their cap, the sellers could extract more value for that salary relief. But if the buyer’s cap is close to maxed out, and loans are disallowed, potential sellers lose one potential buyer and can lead to a deadlocked trade market
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As for loans, not allowing large loans hamstrings rebuilders unfairly IMO. They get stuck holding the bag of players at non-keeper salaries when they instead could have cashed them in for future assets.
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One thing I’ve kinda come to conclude is that if you’re sure you’re winning the deal, pull the trigger right away, but otherwise let it stew overnight or check in on what other trade partners may be willing to offer for the same pieces. Would’ve loved a chance to match offers, but it’s partly on me for not reaching to explore availability of some of the big fish who were moved.
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don’t have a problem with the pending trades or the Yelich deal. In no way does any agreed upon deal seem collusive, but merely a matter of personal valuations.
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Why gamble on a prospect when Blackmon is a sure bet? He is cheaper than Nolan and at a position of need. I have said this twelve times. I also like Peralta as a keeper. Kershaw, Rosario and Nolan are not keepers for me next year on their salaries, so I traded for a player I value highly.
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But you're right this is getting old. Take care everyone. May the healthiest team win.
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