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I'll also try to share some of that information with the rest of the league as well to try to up the competition level. Hopefully that will also lead to some interesting discussions. So for the time being, please refrain from sending Lando any trade offers (he'll continue bidding on free agents). Thank you, and welcome back Lando.
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Okay guys, it looks like Lando was just expressing his frustration when he said he didn't want to continue playing. I've talked with him and he understands the trade was problematic and that we want him to improve. So he is going to take a break from making trades for a couple of months and I'm going to try and help get him up to speed.
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Midnight Gophers's trade block has been updated!
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I want to reiterate that if this trade is vetoed, I"m out. I've had 2 prior trades get reversed without veto, including one where we literally consulted the creator of Ottoneu himself and he said what I did was fine, and I still agreed to reverse even though it was permitted, just to be easy-going. I'm not spending my time running veto campaigns to thwart my opponents and structuring trades to be veto-proof - don't have the time. It's a fun league, and wouldn't be hard feeling. Just won't
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I think the only problem just corrected itself.
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To everyone - I'm really sorry that this has gotten so ugly. If the league has a problem with how I've been running things, then I'm willing to step down as commissioner. Otherwise I'm very open to suggestions of how we can prevent a repeat of this.
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You seem to think we're all complainers and sore losers, so I very much look forward to you winning another league and proving all of us wrong. It just won't be this league. Good bye and good luck.
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As far as I've seen, myself and everyone else have directed their complaints towards your gameplay. No one has said anything personal. And that's the way it should be. No one has a personal issue with you. The problem is 100% with your gameplay, and that's where the focus has been.
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This game is very complex, and unfortunately everyone except you can see that you're not very good at it. And that's fine. Everyone is entitled to play however they want, EXCEPT when it threatens the overall league health, and that's clearly what has happened here. Hence all the angry messages and people wanting to quit.
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You were rightfully called out for accepting the trade, and I was certainly not the first one to do so. So excuse me for becoming frustrated and not remaining impartial when the league is in serious danger of collapsing. How childish and irresponsible of me to step in at that point. I'm trying to do the best I can in a difficult situation where I have to serve as both commissioner and competitor.
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In case you haven't noticed, this trade is in danger of tearing the league apart. Players have messaged me and told me that this league is not fun anymore and they are leaving. I can't say I blame them, because this has most certainly not been any fun. Whether you want to believe it or not, this is because of you accepting that trade, Lando.
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I've been commissioner of this league for five years and have remained impartial on virtually everything that has happened in that time - usually while also competing myself, which is harder than it may sound. Your complaint about my handling of the auction is comical. I don't know what sort of powers you think I have over other people placing bids using a common auction strategy. I can start, pause, and stop the auction. That's it.
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I’m hoping a nights sleep may have calmed some nerves. I’ve been reading along but mostly staying out of this because what’s he point? Everyone has an opinion, no one is going to change anyone’s mind. Please let us never discuss politics here…I’m all for debates, but it’s a problem when we start making personal attacks. Anyway, I hope no one leaves over this. And I hope we can all be respectful of viewpoints that we don’t agree with. Stay classy San Diego.
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I am sorry to see you, or anyone who want enjoy a fantasy baseball league feel they need to leave because of the postings of others, myself included. FWIW a phrase uttered by a friend years ago while playing D&D seems relevant here. When other players kept telling him what he should do during the adventure he yelled "You play your character how you want to play your character and I will play mine."
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I own a small successful business, I am on staff at my church, I have four amazing daughters and a beautiful wife. I joined Ottoneu to have fun - this was not fun. So ... I am done
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Tux – as ‘commissioner’ your comments are particularly frustrating. If you objective was to drive me out of the league, congratulations for you have been successful. Calling me a “troll”, a “ "bad fantasy player” and other colorful terms is not the role of a “commissioner”. Nor is repeating my confidential trade comments to you.
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Tux did make me an offer for Kimbrel and Harper – he offered Junis, Olson, Melacon and McKay. None of those players will be superstars next year or the year after – but Seager assuredly will and Zimmer could be a 20-20 player every year and his contract cost is low.
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This year’s draft auction was irritating to me – there were at least two owners that thought it was strategic to was until the last second to make a higher bid. That childish behavior caused to night to run on for much longer than it should have. A good commissioner would have reined that in ….
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Did all of you pay more than I did to join the league? Do you all have special rights? WSR IV correctly read that I was playing for the future. I have a solid core of younger players and a good minor league system. I WAS paying and playing for 2019 and 2020 – but that is not going to happen now.
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I have been reading all the venom directed at me over the past few days. I find it disturbing and hilarious at the same time – I only had one other offer for Harper (I will address that later) and it included several players that I really don’t like. Many of you are acting like middle school kids who are angry because the smart kid who did the homework got the ‘A’ and you all got a ‘C’.
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Thanks for the recommendations. I'll take a look!
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I recently read a few books about baseball some of you may enjoy too. "One Pitch Away" by Mike
Sowell is about the '86 post season. "Perfect" by Lew Paper is about Don Larsen's perfect game in the world series. "As They See 'Em" by Bruce Weber is about umpires. Enjoy!
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I enjoy this league. I also like making trades with this current group of owners. I find it challenging to work out trades that benefit both teams.
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Bottom line, the cycle has to stop, because the fun already has.
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I've been here since day 2, and this was my first ottoneu league. I've done the cycle too, build, win, rebuild, contend. We've had some owner turnover here and that has been a big factor in a trend of bad teams staying bad. This was not the first awful trade to go through, and it probably won't be the last. We've all benefited from bad owners making bad deals, but that's why the cycle continues. I haven't left yet, simply because of nostalgia, and maybe a little spite.
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That's a rough trade.
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Anyway, my view is that I hate to see leagues get torn apart because of bad trades. It doesn’t happen frequently but unfortunately it does from time to time. While I am new to this league, I have enjoyed it so far as it presents a different challenge to other leagues I am in. I drafted with the view of giving it a run this year but have been crushed by injuries so don't expect to actually have a shot. However, I'm not throwing in the towel just yet.
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https://ottoneu.fangraphs.com/296/viewtrade?id=33333&pending=1
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Also, Ox, I think you are a damn-good deal-maker, and was very happy Tux recruited you to our league.
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Can't view the trade - what was it?
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I should clarify my statement on the Stanton trade, because I've given the wrong idea. At the time, I thought it was a good trade for you, and unnecessary for Tux, because he had already run away with the league, so the value of seemingly unkeepable players was super low. My point was that player values fluctuate to circumstances. Trades are hard to judge unless you make an effort to go in someone else's shoes.
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As for the crazy amount of posting that has gone on here today due to a rift which has opened up due to an accepted trade. Let me turn everyone attention to what went down last year in 296 last year and caused about half the league to turn over during the off season.
https://ottoneu.fangraphs.com/296/messageboard?page=4
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I traded away Stanton for Turner as I didn't want to keep Stanton on the price he was likely to be on after arbitration. I stand by that decision. It sucks that Turner has been hurt most of the year, and that Stanton went insane after I traded him, but I was pleased with the trade at the time and feel overall I'm a decent and fair trader.
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Harper was added for $45 this year. You had plenty of money to buy him at $45 and didn't. He hasn't played above his draft ranking. I'm not saying he isn't keepable - I'm saying the auction spoke. But I'll happily accept the league's view as to inflated values of all of my players that anyone wants to offer.
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On top of that, this is a $45 Harper, not a $60 Kershaw. Harper at that price is keepable for YEARS going forward. It's an astoundingly bad trade in every conceivable way.
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I appreciate the full throated defense of yourself and extraordinary confidence in your trading abilities, but, uhm, there was, and always will be, a larger market than one for Bryce freakin' Harper. The market is everyone. And since you're demanding examples of what someone else would've given up, well, Acuna. As was already stated. I'm not sure how a broke $28 Seager is a better value, but even if someone saw it that way, the inclusion of Kimbrel and Semien stretches the imagination.
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And, if I am in the league two days from now, to all ya'll, I say this: just like yesterday, last year, and the year before, come to me before you finalize a trade. I usually provide the best prices if I'm in the same competitive cycle as the other buyers, and won't personally trash you if we don't happen to see eye-to-eye.
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value. And in all this time, each time, when someone says I paid 10 cents for something, I ask what they would have paid. And each time, I've never, ever heard a response. Ever. Not one example. Always "well, I didn't need those guys". Well, if someone is selling something, and there is one buyer, that buyer pays at a lesser price. That's called a market. One day, after dozens of fantasy years, maybe every participant will understand that fact. Astros seem to get it.
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Sounds like I'm being blamed. I admit it - I'm good at making trades. I listen to people instead of berate their opinions of their own players - ask what they want from me, listen to how they feel about their own players. I don't shit on them if they make a trade most people don't like, I look at the trade, figure out their reasoning, and try and offer something they will like next time. And, when someone is about to give up on the year, I try to be first to buy their current assets for future
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Not going to argue other trades with you Dave. All I'll say is that from what I've seen, no one seems to be blaming you. The blame has been focused on Lando, as it should be. However, as MLB has pointed out, this seems to happen in a lot of leagues you are in, and you're usually at the center of it. Maybe time to re-evaluate how you approach the game, since it's making people not want to continue playing.
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Also, on Machado - I don't really agree it was too bad, because I knew roughly what you were gonna pay before it happened, talked down the trade to try and stop it, made my own offer, and it wasn't good enough - yours was better. He got the best price available that I knew of. That's how an illiquid market with a hot seller works. Anyone griping should have known, first, that Machado was for sale, and second, roughly what it would take. And be willing to beat your price, if they wanted him.
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And btw, like any time this happens, I said I'd love to hear a better offer for Bryce, Semien and Kimbrel. If it's 5 cents on the dollar, I look forward to hearing an offer that would have given Lando 16-20 times as much, right? Well, let's hear it then. Let's hear the offer. It is a market, after all. Prove your point.
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A guy who traded Justin Turner for Stanton after Stanton had something like 40 HR. I didn't care then and I don't care now, but I'm not going through a league year with different standards applied to me by mob rule, just because I listen better to my potential trade partners about what they want. If my trade gets vetoed, fine, I'll leave. Enjoy winning titles in the kiddie division because you are afraid of competition.
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Yeah, maybe. Or how about I inquired about harper a few weeks ago....then a couple of weeks later...and so on, continuously. Ya know, like we were in a market. I haven't made a trade with any one of you that someone else didn't yell at me about, either because they felt I got a great deal, or, when I was rebuilding, that I gave a competitor a great deal. And I think it's awfully fucking rich for a team that literally was the best in all of fantasy last year to determine where the line is.
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And since I've already waded away from impartiality, I'm going to add that I inquired about Harper a few weeks ago. I was told that Lando bought him to watch him play and he was explicitly not for sale. A few short weeks later and a keepable Harper is traded for nothing, without so much as a message to an interested competitor asking for a better offer. This is straight out of the "bad fantasy player handbook". If I didn't know any better, I would think that Lando is just trolling
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I understand everyone has different valuations and that they are constantly changing over time. But deals have to be evaluated at the time they are made. What has happened here is the equivalent of a stock selling for $1, and Lando swooping in and purchasing it for $20 a share. Even if that stock is one day worth $5000 a share, it doesn't change the fact that Lando made a terrible decision based upon the available information at the time. These are the types of trades that destroy leagues.
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I generally try to stay impartial but I'm going to throw my two cents in here. I think my Machado trade was a bad trade. I paid like 75 to 80 cents on the dollar. The Acuna trade is an extremely bad trade. He paid about 50 cents on the dollar. The Harper trade is by far the worst trade I've ever seen, and it's legitimately not even remotely close. That was paying about 5 to 10 cents on the dollar.
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Everyone please make sure to vote on the trades. These are league-altering type trades that have destroyed the competitive balance of the league - for this year, and moving forward - and it seems regardless of how things shake out, we're now going to be losing players. I'm really unhappy with what's happened here. We'll have to figure out our course forward after we see the votes.
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Being in a fantasy league with Rogers and co is always frustrating because he consistently pulls off ridiculous trades like this. It directly affects league dynamics. But there's no reason to be mad at him or make him defend his trade. He obviously pulled off a heist. If anything, direct your questions and ire at those who enable this lunacy.
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Of course it is a good trade for me. That's why I did it. You can only see the one side because you believe you are competing with me. You arent- you are competing with Lando to prep for next year.
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