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My issue with this trade is that it circumvents the salary cap which is put in place to create some parity. Giving one team an unfair advantage relative to the rest. Maybe that is the way the Yankees and RedSox work in real life....
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My projection research shows a projected 4.5 point jump for WSB in overall....Moving him from 2nd to 1st. That type of jump is unusual in this format because the type of player required for a top team to improve by that much, is usually unaffordable.
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You got 2-4 of "value" in Baez. There is no way you can say Votto is worth $2-4 which is what WSB paid for him (in lost value in Baez).
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Meanwhile Baez is worth about $5-7 at most. Look around the league at the other top prospects and that's what they're getting paid. If WSB could fit a $45 Votto under his cap and made the cuts to fit him under the cap I'd have no problem with this trade
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Let me take a quick minute away from my apparently undemanding job to comment. On the Ottoneu site, in 5X5, Joey Votto's avg salary is $41.37 (Low of $28, High of $74)....so he is pretty well priced in our league.
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makes your team better this year. My earlier message I meant Votto's value is at least $40, not $45, but he could return $45.
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only have negative value if he were starting on your team when a free agent could do better. If you read anything on fangraphs you know that WAR is a player's wins above replacement. There is NO WAY cutting Votto and not having the $45 to spend
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at least $45 and he could easily return $45-$47 making him keepable next year. If he returns $40 this year he could be keepable next year. Votto is not dragging your team down, he was the only thing holding it up. Someone overpriced on your team would
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I am smart enough to know that the precise quantitative value was not reached in this agreement and I am triyng to enlighten you. Votto may not be worth quite $45, but he is a back-end first round draft pick in redraft leagues. His value this year is
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Perhaps the precise quantitive value of the money was reached in this agreement, but Im not smart enough to know what that is. If anyone else does, I would enjoy learning and being enlightended, so I may make it perfect in the eyes of VB Boys next time.
OBX Slammers on
April 1, 2014 10:52 AM
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...back to zero value (1st grade math says zero is better than negative)....and if Im expecting a good return (one of baseball's premier prospects and a young starting 2b, most or all of the salary would need to be included to even this out?
OBX Slammers on
April 1, 2014 10:50 AM
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...in fact overpriced (which I happen to agree with), would that not mean that he and his full salary had a nagative trade value, and thus any trade he was included in would need to include salary, even if no player was coming back? Just to bring him...
OBX Slammers on
April 1, 2014 10:48 AM
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So, am I to understand that your only issue with this trade was the amount of money that changed hands? Also, youve indicated that Votto is accurately priced...but in a private message to me, you exclaimed that Votto was "an overpriced vet". If he was...
OBX Slammers on
April 1, 2014 10:47 AM
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A majority. http://ottoneu.fangraphs.com/rules#trades
OBX Slammers on
April 1, 2014 10:42 AM
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It takes 7 I believe. The Ottoneu rules say 50% plus one. I guess we had 5 votes against it and 5 abstaining. I vetoed the trade because it was too lopsided. Both Votto and Baez are accurately priced but WSB got Votto free.
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How many does it take to veto a trade?
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$15 million? I spent that much alone for fuel for my private jet.
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Oh, and I am on spring break so I have been able to watch baseball all day :)
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Also, I live in CT too (New Haven area)! Did I end up in a CT-only league without realizing it? Don't need a job [right now] though Brew Crew, but you probably don't need any scientists or teachers :)
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I think I'm getting my head around this move more now and empathize a bit with you brew crew. I rescind my re vote :). Bring it on WSB!
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No, and prob cant afford to have one in house. Did just under $15 million last year, so we are growing, but still small enough that I cant yet afford you or one of your colleagues.
OBX Slammers on
March 31, 2014 4:58 PM
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This is the most conversation we've ever had in this league haha... Thanks for a job offer, I haven't had one of those in a few years. But no, I'm a self-employed attorney and I'm assuming you don't run a law firm.
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I'm in CT - watching Sox right now. Go Sizemore!!
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Im also just jealous. I couldnt wait to run out and not come back. We had a surprise snow storm up here this morning, which created a nightmare on the roads. Otherwise, I wouldve been watching the games 3 hours ago!!
OBX Slammers on
March 31, 2014 4:43 PM
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I agree. And I wasnt saying it to be an asshole, so hopefully that wasnt perceived as such. If that is the case though, and any of you live in Western MA or CT, I would be happy to employ you. If youre on here, you must be qualified, right?
OBX Slammers on
March 31, 2014 4:42 PM
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Wow guys, I understood the trade from both sides. Baez is a significant prospect, and should be up soon and bashing at an extremely low salary. That's how you build a team guys.
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I know what you're trying to do. I didn't disagree with the concept. I just don't see why he wouldn't take Votto for a $25 cost to himself. And if he did I wouldn't have vetoed it. The trade was fair 1 for 1 without $45.
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I think the labor force participation rate is like 60% in the US now, maybe, is it less than that now? That means that 5 people in here shouldn't work. I'd guess another 1-2 have part time jobs. Soon we'll all be replaced by robots anyway.
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...that remain will want new owners to take over those crappy rosters, and mve the league forward. Thats all Im trying to do here, boys. Make myself competitive.
OBX Slammers on
March 31, 2014 4:28 PM
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The way you would like, there would never be any incentive for someone to take over an abandoned team. Why would I take over someone else's abortion, if I dont have the ability to shape it how I like? Sooner or later, everyone leaves, and those of us...
OBX Slammers on
March 31, 2014 4:27 PM
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...one way, doesnt make it wrong that someone else does. Youre welcome to your vote, and to try and hard sell the league that I should be denied the ability to improve. Thats how this works. IMO, diff of opinion is what makes this format great....
OBX Slammers on
March 31, 2014 4:26 PM
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Doesnt anyone have a demanding job? I wouldve loved to be on here all day, defending my honor, but unfortunately, I have a company to run. I am in about 10 of these leagues, and deals like this happen in every one. Because you didnt perceive something...
OBX Slammers on
March 31, 2014 4:24 PM
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My point is, Baez isn't worth $30. Brew Crew gave away a $0 Votto for a $48 Baez and the trade didn't get vetoed.
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If that's the way we want to play- I'm cool with it too. This is only our second year so our first encountering this. I thought it was a *little* stronmessag to loan someone $45 in exchange for one prospect, but the concept isn't against the spirit.
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I also abstained, but now wish I had voted to approve. Nothing wrong picking up salaries in exchange for prospects--happens in MLB, why not here?
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Brew Crew can't win this year and doesn't care who does. He was selling Votto for the best prospect available and whoever was willing to part with their top prospect would get the championship.
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Also, happy opening day!
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I call for a re-vote.
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Brew Crew, why on earth would you give up $45??? I don't get this.
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Oh. I did not get that. Did not think you could do that--my bad. I assumed WSB would have to make cuts to complete the transaction. I agree that this is against the spirit of the system/league.
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That's the problem with the trade. I explained that's why I vetoed it. I think it's against the spirit of the system because he does go over the cap AND still has $30 to spend. I think the loans are meant to smooth out trades, not loan someone a champ.
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He's not over the cap cause he has a loan for $45 to cover the cost of Votto. He gets a FREE Votto. That's why Touch 'em All Joe is coming at us with $800 next year. He'll just loan all that money to himself.
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I didn't vote for or against, but I don't have a problem with the trade. I'll be honest though, how does it work with WSB going over the cap?
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Enraged is too strong. They should be annoyed.
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I'm the "wait till next year guy" though so I don't care. But Paranoid Android, Blackout Restrictions, Winnemucca Drifters, Touch 'em All Joe, among others should be enraged.
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Yep, WSB just got a free Joey Votto that didn't count against the cap for a prospect. I tried to take it to the message board to round up some votes against it. The "abstaining" are people who didn't check. We need a longer veto period.
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But.....it is currently legal and was not vetoed (surprised)....so good luck to all.
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I am shocked that trade went through...5 abstaining?? I have a new strategy for next year..my wife is taking over the first team abandoned..$800 salary cap here I come.LOL. I believe that this type of trade, while legal, violates the spirit of the system.
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Touch`em All Joe's trade block has been updated!
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The Brew Crew's trade block has been updated!
OBX Slammers on
March 29, 2014 5:49 PM
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