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Ill trade for Witt. Send me offers .
Pirate Fan on
November 19, 2021 7:42 AM
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I very much would like to continue the discussion for seasons moving forward. After we fill out our owner roster perhaps we can have some discussion and get a better sense of how all parties involved feel and look into making it a rule moving forward into perpetuity.
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on Berrios hoping that he becomes just expensive enough that I'll drop him. I get it, there are several strategies for arbitration. But I've been an advocate, as have others, to make a league wide rule change to not allow MiLB arb. Like Chicken said, to institute a league wide rule change we need more than 5 owners agreeing to it. We got feedback from almost everyone and 5 was where we got to on Yes votes. Unfortunately that isn't good enough.
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Perhaps I shouldn't have named Witt by name but it certainly wasn't collusion. He had $6 allocated to him when I mentioned his name and that didn't change from that point. I definitely think that putting arb on prospects is not at all how I would prefer this game to be played. I believe that allocating $ to prospects feels simply like sour grapes because you wish that you had the player. I understand that arb $ is strategic. You may put $3 on Tatis because he's my best player or you may put $2
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But I can understand that we play by the rules as they are. The better you can stack your roster, your budget, and manage it through the season, the more points you'll score. It's the same game for everyone, so buy low, sell high and good luck to everyone.
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I somewhat agree with Penhook. Just want to let him know that he's not alone. I'd like it if Ottoneu somewhat followed MLB rules and strategies. I'm less interested in gaming it with "fantasy" strategies that the current rules allow... rotating 200 players through your roster in a season, bidding up Minor leaguers because you didn't pay attention or didn't want to bother with it in-season (but conveniently can catch up and dump arbitration on teams in the offseason), etc.
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One hard reality of Ottoneu is that virtually no one is accordingly priced. The reason for this is that after the initial Year One draft virtually no great player is auctioned at his real market value, and the reason for that feature of the system is that no one but the owner decides if the player becomes a free agent. There is no "he has hit 6 years service time on Arise Chicken, and had opted to enter free agency."
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I feel like changing a rule should have a higher threshold for passing than a trade veto, and 5 against and 1 for would still get a trade through. Was Witt mentioned before the arb window closed?
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Ah so I got boned because we can’t get full league participation. Cool.
Penhook Heroes on
November 18, 2021 6:37 PM
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12 teams. 5 not majority.
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I'm not saying it ruined my season. I'm saying the result was the opposite of arbs purpose and it was ran like shit. Here's a commishes message:
"Current MiLB players with arbitration $ allocated are as follows:
Bobby Witt Jr
Nick Pratto
Jose Miranda
Should the majority agree to adopt no MiLB arbitration you'll need to reallocate those dollars or else they will be wasted as those player's salaries will be re-set."
Last I c
Penhook Heroes on
November 18, 2021 6:16 PM
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While I admit maybe Witt shouldn't of been mentioned by name, I think it is a bit rich to complain about Witt getting $6 in arb. I don't think that really gets him to the waiver that much quicker (if at all) if he is a star. I think in every other Otto league an MiLB player can get all the arb he wants. I also think he probably gets much more if people think it is okay to arb MiLB players based on your roster. I get it. It is frustrating, just not sure how it completely ruins your season.
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Witt’s on Trade Block. If he is apparently worth 250% more than legit MVP Candidates in arb I’m excited to see what kind of 9 player deal he can return.
Penhook Heroes on
November 18, 2021 6:02 PM
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What are you insinuating? I took good contracts of inured players because I didn’t have a foundation. Now I’m still not going to have a strong foundation because my young players lost a ton of value before even playing an inning in MLB. And that’s till doesn’t cover the topic of why arbing players was discussed by name during the arb process with an open vote? Haha it completely shits on my team for this year and it really only affected my last place team which is the opposite of its point.
Penhook Heroes on
November 18, 2021 5:57 PM
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I think you answered your own question, "I punted the last two years." That is what disrupts the competitive balance, not Witt get a few dollars in arb. I did not put money on Witt (or any MiLB prospect) because I didn't want to incur the wrath of Chicken, but I def would have hit Witt up. I am a Royals guy and he is going to be a STUD.
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I'm not trying to stir the pot or create an agrument. But I didn't put arb on a single prospect because the vote was 5-1 and to come back and see not only my best prospect get beat up in arb, he was also discussed openly as a clear arb target. That's messed up.
Penhook Heroes on
November 18, 2021 3:54 PM
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I mean Mitch Hanniger was an actual MVP candidate and received $1 arb dollar taking his total to $7 comparied to Witt, who received $6 and hasn't even played a game in MLB taking his to $10. How does that make any sesnse?
Penhook Heroes on
November 18, 2021 3:52 PM
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There was 5 against arbing Prospects and 1 For it. How is that not consensus? And discussing Witt as the main discussion point while he gets arbed to death is more clear collusion than what we were actually voting for. I've basically punted the last 2 years finishing in almost last and now I actually have pieces and they lose a ton of value before even playing a season haha. How does that help competitive balance?
Penhook Heroes on
November 18, 2021 3:51 PM
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Welcome back, Papi. Please renew your team for next season.
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Hi guys, I dropped a lot of teams (10 or 12 lately), but when I saw my old team in the CLAIM A TEAM and looked it over, I sais to myself you're crazy man, you loved that roster. So I claimed it, I'm not that kind of a guy to drop and claim and drop, firat time I do that since I'm with Ottoneu, so thanks for understanding, glad to be back
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Oh my did you just put Profar comp on Witt?
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I think Witt was the center of discussion because he's such a clear-cut Alpha Dog among prospects so he's an easy target. Of course, 10 years ago "Witt" would have = "Profar", so.....
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@Penhook, there was not a clear consensus on a league vote therefor we decided to go with standard league settings and allow MiLB arb.
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Welcome Soylent. Please renew your team prior to making any additional roster transactions.
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Did we ever decide on arbing prospects? Because my best value piece went up 250% all before making an MLB debut and being the main piece of discussion of who to arb….?
Penhook Heroes on
November 17, 2021 11:26 PM
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Welcome!
Penhook Heroes on
November 17, 2021 11:20 PM
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Yo! Looking forward to playing in this league guys. First time with Sabr Points but I've played other points leagues, so I'll figure it out in no time. Look forward to a busy off-season and a great season ahead.
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So as a competitive play, I think it's great to put money on prospects that I know will not force a cut, but as mentioned below by Chief it's only smart to put that money on the top of the top. There's maybe 4 MiLB players worth arb-ing this year.
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I think there's an inflection point and it's age based for me. So if it's "Do I put $2 on a 29 year old with young man skills, or the top prospect who's a slam dunk to be an All-Star" I'll put it on the kid. If it's the same but the 29 year old is 23 year old Juan Soto, I'll put it on Soto. I want my arb money allocated in Year 1 to hopefully still be on the payroll in Year 5 so that the owner is keeping the player but also forced to make other decisions around that keeper.
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Re arb-ing prospects: the arb money on a sure thing is going to stick longer and be a better competitive play. ie if every owner puts $1 on Witt today, and Witt goes from $6 to $17, he will debut far closer to his market value. If he's a stud then in year two he might be $30-35. Whereas if no one arbs Witt now, and we put our money on Trea Turner and Turner's speed deteriorates and Turner is a drop in 2 more years, then arb money allocated in Year 1 is gone in Year 3.
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I believe we are 10+ days past the World Series. Renewals are due. Thanks.
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Dammit, didn't get my arb done in time. Sorry folks, been a bit tied up and had that on my list to complete.
🍁Votto's RCMP on
November 15, 2021 9:08 AM
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Safe to say we didn’t reach a consensus so we’ll move forward with the default settings including MiLB arb. Don’t forget arbitration deadline is tomorrow.
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IMO Witt is gonna be a stud. Watching him play here in AAA he looks to be the real deal. Why wouldn't I put my arb money towards him? It is my money not? Ohh you have him on your team and you don't want your budget to get blown up? If you don't want to pay that money then trade/drop him. Pay up or let some else have him. Makes this more competitive. Also, I think Arb money is gonna go towards the top 10 or 15 prospects.
Only using Witt as an example. Not bashing him or his owner.
Pirate Fan on
November 12, 2021 8:10 AM
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i'm having a really hard time finding a reason to really care/vote one way or the other; whatever is decided is fine by me. i agree with Chief that there's seemingly no reason to arb a prospect unless the entire team is prospects; i'm also free market, so people should be free to allocate however they wish. so I guess, on balance, if forced to cast a firm vote...i would go with YES, allow MLB arb. (but really...there are better strategies than arbing prospects!)
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I would say that rostering Bobby Witt for a year or two should be rewarded as you're essentially punting a potential roster spot for that time. Once he hits MLB and if he deserves large arb, then so be it. But any team that hoards prospects isn't likely to be competitive in the first place. I think it allows for a likelihood of rebuilding if we eliminate arbitration allocations from non MLB service time players.
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But I fear that making it seem as though rostering the next wave of draft picks/J2 is more appealing bc their salaries won’t increase will lead to longer tanking cycles and a less competitive league. I guess my question is what’s the goal here, being a prospect hipster or being competitive?
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I’m pretty ambivalent about it. Part of me says there shouldn’t be any restrictions, arb who you want. Another part says arbing prospects is on average wasteful so restricting the ability to do it may be a boon to league health (e.g. I’d arb Witt, but pratto and Miranda? Prove it in the bigs and arb them heavily in ‘22 if they’re stars).
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I agree it would be best to have Chief Benders, Thunderducks, and Circus Monkeys weigh in. I'll try to message them and see if we can get them to weigh in. Getting down to crunch time here.
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I think it would be great to get to 7 or 8 or some higher level of agreement, but I'm not sure I would want to defer to abandoned teams and other teams without strong opinions or not voting. Any chance we can get any of the non-voting teams to weigh in?
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I don’t think we can enact a rule change on 60% of active owners saying yes. Thoughts?
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Current MiLB players with arbitration $ allocated are as follows:
Bobby Witt Jr
Nick Pratto
Jose Miranda
Should the majority agree to adopt no MiLB arbitration you'll need to reallocate those dollars or else they will be wasted as those player's salaries will be re-set.
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Looking back at the message board it appears CTI is against and sunny meadows if for it. That leaves us missing: Chief Benders, Thunderducks, and Circus Monkeys. k/9 & big papi are abandoned. Current vote appears to be:
6 against
2 for
2 no votes
I believe that makes a majority assuming that CTI and/or Sunny Meadows does not want to change their vote.
I'll leave this open to discuss until Wednesday at noon EST.
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5 against
1 for
2 teams are already abandoned so we'll need the remaining 4 members to vote. 1 more nay vote would be a majority of the remaining owners.
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no MILB arb
Penhook Heroes on
November 8, 2021 11:34 AM
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Chicken: no MILB arb
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3 against
1 for
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Yes is my vote
Pirate Fan on
November 8, 2021 7:19 AM
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Three votes for no MiLB arb. I’d like to have a resolution by 11/10 so people have four days to complete arbitration allocations. Need a majority one way or the other.
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CTI: No MiLB arb.
🍁Votto's RCMP on
November 7, 2021 12:10 PM
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