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I can't speak for Green Bregs, but I think you are incorrect in thinking this is a jealousy thing by the teams dissenting. It's not at all for me. Not jealousy that Trenton may be ahead of other competitors (I don't think there is any favorite after two weeks) or that someone couldn't swing their own deal for Rizzo or Harper. It's moreso that someone is getting a discount on two studs, which skews trade value throughout the league as a whole.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 3:38 PM
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Well Rizzo is borderline keepable imo since I kept him but had to think hard about it. Harper would be keepable if he goes back to 2015 levels. But look at Trenton's roster. He wont have the luxury after this season to take all his contracts. He will have >$300 (including yearly increase but not allocations!) invested in 6 roster spots if he keeps all his $45+ players. I get his play though. I also understand it sucks for the rest of the top 5 or 6 teams that are doing well at the moment.
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GBH: Next time I would just ask that before we veto a deal we give the participants a chance to explain their sides as I did back in 2016. The explanation changes me from veto to approve so I think it's worthwhile
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The trade will likely end up going through, but I think that tools like the veto button and the message board are here precisely to discuss the impact of a trade like this on the long-term health of the league.
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DVS: Yeah it was the Kershaw and Rendon deal for Machado and Eaton. I dont remember hating that deal tbh. The funniest part was when you said Kershaw is about to blow his arm out lol
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I get that Acuna has a great contract, but both Rizzo and Harper are rarely going to auction for less than their current prices, meaning they are actually keepable assets.
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FWIW, I veto-ed this trade because it was done in season with a pretty significant loan. Offseason, I can somewhat see this trade being passable depending on roster construction. But in season, Trenton is effectively getting 3600 points at a 75% discount while giving away realistically max 1300 points this season. And that gap will not appreciably close over the next couple seasons.
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Noted for going forward.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 3:00 PM
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This seems like a pretty typical dynasty trade. I think Trenton wins the trade, at least for now until we see exactly how good Acuna will be.
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My comment was about a deal: Sonny Gray, Alex Colome, and Corey Dickerson for Shawn Tolleson, Bradley Zimmer, Aaron Judge, and Trevor Bauer. Oof, that didn't age well :P
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and this was me way back in 2016..... "Does anyone else think the last deal (Mookie and Westsiders" is a little one-sided? I am considering vetoing (something i've never done before) and wanted to get opinions/explanations. I will abstain until we discuss."
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Yup Kershaw deal I believe.
Burress Bees on
April 11, 2019 2:45 PM
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Makers, last season when Westsiders questioned a trade, his comment was "Would Death Valley Scalpers and Major League WannaBe's care to comment on the trade that just went through? It looks very unbalanced to me but I'd like to give you guys a chance to explain." Just saying.
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Seager is available :P
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Me too! Let's wheel and deal
Burress Bees on
April 11, 2019 2:37 PM
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This may say something about me that comes from a very dark place, but I am soooooo currently in the mood to trade!
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My comment was to spark a discussion in the league, which this did. I concede that we all different values of players and if I came off wrong, I apologize. I definitely was not implying that anyone was stupid or colluding. Sure, will do, Expos.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 2:30 PM
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Agreed DVS. Makers, lets just drop it and agree to disagree.
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I agree with Italian's take, viewing this trade over multiple years should make Montreal the runaway winner while only helping Thunder for one season. This is the second trade in just over a week that MoS has run to the message board to complain about. It might not be "stirring shit up" but it definitely comes across as petty to me.
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MofS, your initial comment was intended to incite a hot discussion. You were not respectful in the least and certainly implied either collusion or stupidity. Nor did you explain, initially, your rationale for your terse conclusion. Then you followed up your initial salvo by making demonstrably false and inaccurate statements (i.e., "Free Rizzo"). So, yes, you went about this the wrong way.
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I totally agree, Commish. I would be personally fine with it if I made a trade and someone questioned it to on here too. I'm not telling anyone that they should or have to agree with me, but just giving my thoughts.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 1:48 PM
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Not at all. I think Harper will outscore Acuna on a PPG perspective in 2019 and has a higher ceiling. While there is a price difference between the two, obviously, that difference to me in April is not even close to Rizzo. Especially when I consider Markakis and Taylor to be better than Bauers and Lopez. Hence, my comment about a free Rizzo. Like I said, if there were better secondary pieces, I wouldn't be saying it was a free Rizzo.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 1:46 PM
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Everyone definitely should have an opinion. We had similar discussions in past and I encourage them in the future. We need to hear all opinions whether we agree or disagree.
Unless there is foul play involved, each team can and will conduct business as they see fit.
Burress Bees on
April 11, 2019 1:43 PM
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We will agree to disagree on the fact that the comments have anything to do with past trade discussions. There's a reason I never reached back out to you about Votto or Rizzo, which is plain and simple because Alonso started the season with the Mets and crushed. If I really wanted Rizzo that badly to complain about not getting him now, don't you think I would have touched base again between the last conversation in March and now?
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 1:40 PM
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I have no problem with people saying they think Trenton won the deal or asking questions about the deal, etc... The "free Rizzo" comment is the definition of stirring shit up after our trade discussions.
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So, I can't give a dissenting opinion without "stirring shit up?" I've been nothing but respectful and honest. Nor did I ever say collusion was involved and definitely 100% do not think there was at all. Obviously, I have a differing opinion than Expos about the trade and that's okay, but I should have the right to say something just like Expos has the right to make a trade that I don't agree with.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 1:34 PM
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MofS, you asked for Votto or Rizzo, we talked about a deal for Votto but then I said if you would prefer Rizzo, then you need to add more to the deal we were discussing. Then you lashed out at me for making an offer that you deemed unacceptable because it included Upton, whom you cut recently I believe. The deal you wanted to make with me was infinitely worse that this deal could possibly be. Also, I do believe your comments are affected by our discussions which is why I am responding to you.
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If there are people who have questions regarding this trade (similar to Makers of Sexy) the feel free to ask them here or PM me if you prefer private. I'm cool with that and have no problem answering questions regarding my thought processes.
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Rizzo at $50 is likely a one year rental. Regardless of how good he is, the future value for Montreal Expos will likely make him the long-term winner in this deal. While "dissenting opinions" are fine, don't stir shit up unless you feel a trade was collusive, which this one clearly wasn't.
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For the record, I know I am not alone about similar thoughts to mine on this trade.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 1:25 PM
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The reason I am dissenting on this has absolutely nothing to do with not getting Rizzo (we never discussed Harper at all and barely discussed Rizzo). I'm not one to get "upset" if someone makes a trade with someone other than me as long as it was done in good faith. That's fantasy sports. No reason to make it personal, Expos, when I said I wouldn't make a trade for a 1B with you weeks ago. It has everything to do with I don't think it is a "fair" trade for the league. No
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 1:24 PM
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Think of it this way. I have cost-controlled young talent for years to come. It will be fun for you guys to decide who to allocate on my team in the off-season. Trenton has a great shot at winning this year but he/they have some big decisions to come in the off-season re: cap space. He/they cant keep everyone. I will have tons of money to spend next year.
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If you think a Free Rizzo was given in this deal, Makers, then I wish you owned Acuna and I could have gotten him from you for much cheaper. But alas, you didnt.
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Don't hate, MakersOfSexy, I tried to trade him to you, but you didn't pull the trigger.
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It's great to have different views. Personally I see Montreal as having a young loaded roster. I'd ask for another to put a player like acuna with that talent. Now Trenton may be the winner but there is the future and Montreal could be the winner when all said and done. I like the trade from both angles. Just my opinion.
Burress Bees on
April 11, 2019 12:54 PM
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I definitely agree with that, Shift! Making trades that are fair to the whole league is always something I strive for.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 12:49 PM
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I think we want both things. We want the freedom to trade and take risks, but we should also respect dissenting opinion and respect the courage of those who voice dissent.
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I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, but the reason I said what I did is that a free Rizzo is being given there. I totally get wanting Acuna, but those secondary pieces going back with him are the epitome of meh. I mean, I don't think that Bauers is even a better player than Markakis and not sure he ever will be. If Rizzo was not in that trade or better secondary pieces were given, totally fair. But, when a stud is given away for free, it's very questionable to me and should be discussed.
WAR Horse on
April 11, 2019 12:42 PM
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Can't wait to see who wins this deal. Dynasty baseball at it's best love it!!
Burress Bees on
April 11, 2019 12:37 PM
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No. Most will think Trenton won the trade. But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t go through. I voted to approve.
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Montreal Expos's trade block has been updated!
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Ultimately I think its a fair deal for both sides. He asked for more, than I asked for more, and ultimately we ended up in the middle. Its the kind of deal that everyone will have a strong opinion on but in the end half will think he ripped me off and half will think I ripped him off. lol Very polarizing.
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Haha, quite the opposite.
WAR Horse on
April 10, 2019 9:50 PM
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you don't think he got enough for a $15 Acuna?
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That's a pretty terrible trade, I must say.
WAR Horse on
April 10, 2019 9:43 PM
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Montreal Expos's trade block has been updated!
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Death Valley Scalpers's trade block has been updated!
Burress Bees on
April 9, 2019 9:27 PM
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The Christian Gentlemen's trade block has been updated!
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The Christian Gentlemen's trade block has been updated!
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Well, that is certainly an interesting trade...
WAR Horse on
April 2, 2019 6:23 PM
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