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Back in 2010 DeadSpin got a hold of a bunch of financial statements from various MLB franchises. For example, I'll summarize the Seattle Mariners income statement and combine years 2007-2008.
Total Operating Revenues $440m
Major league player comp. $233m
Net Income $13m
If you look at the owners take ($13 million) that is about 3% of operating revenues whereas the players received about 53%.
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Yeah nothing wrong with debating about it and disagreeing. It's a good way to hear what other people think even if you disagree with it. No reason that discussion can't be had. I for one appreciate having this space where I can discuss baseball related topics with people.
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Why can't we have a debate? Isn't that a great way to learn?
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Yes I think so. Quit right before the draft. Pretty sure I took his team.
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Inflation is a very serious problem right now. Prices are shooting up so fast, much faster than incomes. When people have $ worries, they drop luxuries (like maybe trips to MLB games, maybe $100 MLB tv subscriptions, etc) so they can afford non-luxuries. There is a realistic chance MLB teams become suddenly much less profitable. Do you think Corey Seager will give some of his $300M back to the Rangers if the team takes a hit in profits? No! Wage earners don’t take on risk like investors.
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I don’t even mean to sound “pro-owner,” I just don’t think the popular narrative of downtrodden labor versus evil ownership is applicable here. I get the dynamic with poor coal miners versus brutal corporate monopoly. But MLB players are paid very, very well, and I don’t know any other business where labor gets to expect that wages must rise at equal rates to the owners’ income. Where does that expectation come from?
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Was it this league where an owner quit because of a message board argument? (Not comparing this to that, just trying to remember)
Region Rats on
March 2, 2022 11:15 PM
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No not trying to convince anybody. I guess the way things are now in society, it's hard to imagine just debating some points is okay. Nobody has to get angry. I'll stop responding to the pro-owner talk though
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Baker I care. Let me ask you all of this question? What are we all experiencing now in our economy? Inflation, it is the result of higher production and supply costs. Do you think the owners are going to make less money with higher labor costs? I think they will pass the extra costs to the consumer like in the past.
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I have found that 95% of the population doesn't even know what "revenue" is. One of the most misused accounting terms.
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Are you guys trying to convince each other to change their opinions about who they should blame for no baseball? There is no chance in hell you can accomplish that. Whats the point in getting upset at each other for thinking differently? Who cares who anyone else blames for this situation? They are both fighting over how to divide up our money! Fans should be the ones who stick together.
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Both sides are being pretty stupid. The real people getting hurt here are the ones that have no voice. It's the minor leaguers living off nothing and the stadium workers who will really suffer from this and they have no real representation in the fight. I just want to watch baseball.
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Actually the owners have locked out the players, otherwise we'd likely be having baseball. Probably end up here inevitably anyway. Thought I read that MLB still gets its fat ESPN TV contract as long as 75% of games are played so owners probably dont start to care until about mid-May which is bad news for us. Anyway, you probably guessed I'm not going to read the CBA. When MLB revenue soars since and player's average, median and percentage of revenues decline since the result is pretty obvious.
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But I don’t really know. It doesn’t matter if we all agree on any of it. I am just mad that a game I live is being disrupted again - 2020 was out of anyone’s control but it sucked. 2022 is totally a self inflicted wound by MLB and MLBPA.
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The players seem upset that their salaries have not gone up as sharply as the overall revenue in the game. But so what? Why would they be upset over that? What is the need for players to get a specific % of overall revenue? I honestly don’t know why players care what owners are earning, as long as the players are happy with their income. They are wage earners, not investors. And the salaries are incredibly good lately.
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MLB player salaries have gone up so sharply, so much faster than average American salaries, so much more than the rate of inflation. MLB minimum salaries have gone up sharply. MLB Average salaries have gone up so much. And most of all, the upper tier players’ salaries have skyrocketed.
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You read that, and then tell me how they got "fleeced".
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Detroit: Here is the 2017-2021 CBA.
https://d39ba378-ae47-4003-86d3-147e4fa6e51b.filesusr.com/ugd/b0a4c2_95883690627349e0a5203f61b93715b5.pdf
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I care about the MLB players’ labor negotiations problems exactly as much as they care about mine. Not one of them would care if I got hit by a bus tomorrow.
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Players made a disastrous 2016 deal. They got fleeced and they know it. Owners want to continue to gorge on that instead of giving back some ground. I respect the players for holding their position. I'm impatient too but its okay
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They have fans mad at other fans over which side we blame! Who gives a crap about blame? Both are arguing how to divide fans' money. F--- them both. I don't really care if they blow the whole season up.
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Most fans are at risk of losing their jobs if their performance declined steeply. But players get guaranteed contracts, and teams have no way out. Why are fans okay with NFL contracts NOT being guaranteed, but adamant that MLB contracts MUST be fully guaranteed? If you are okay with NFL contracts, why not the same for MLB? Other than the lazy old “always been that way” rationale?
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Owners should offer to completely do away with Luxury Taxes and any Cap on payroll…. But they should make it contingent on MLBPA agreeing that no free agent contract can be for more than 3 years. Or contingent on Contracts having buyout clauses teams can use to get out of horrible deals. Fans would probably side with the owners on that. The players would then need to reject a deal that gave them their ultimate prize.
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There many MLBPA members who can vote on the CBA, but who will be out of baseball before it takes effect - plenty of players who will retire but are still officially MLBPA members. Many of the people who will be working under the new CBA aren’t even MLBPA members yet, since they don’t let minor leaguers in. Add in the huge wealth disparity among MLBPA members, and it is such a ridiculous organization. It seems to be controlled by the mega wealthy players.
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In my experience working at a transit agency, the union is always at a disadvantage when there is no competition for their services. MLB still makes some money when games aren’t played and players aren’t paid (not quite apples to apples comparison because the transit agency actually just loses less money when service is suspended). They can and will wait it out, and MLBPA should take an offer that puts them in better position than last CBA if we are to believe they are negotiating in good faith.
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The players have already won by not having guaranteed contracts removed from their CBA. The fact that Lindor and Seager have $300m guaranteed contracts while many minor league players live below the poverty line is absurd.
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I 100% blame the players union. They make me so angry with their hypocrisy. I realize minor league players are not part of the union but I feel they should go to bat for them a little bit more. MLB players make more money than they should, they put no capital at risk.
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Players aren't getting much better offer than they got. They should have taken it.
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Agreed. MLB handled that very poorly. They only are further putting themselves in a hole and also making fans more angry because they gave false hope by claiming they were close.
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If they make another offer and try saying, “but for real this time it really, truly is my actual ‘best and final,” nobody will buy it. MLB should have simply said, “We made a very aggressive, generous offer in our effort to make sure fans don’t miss a single game. We tried very hard, but MLBPA did not make a serious effort to work with us.” Saying, “Nope! No baseball! That was our ‘best and final,” will hurt negotiations.
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What worries me - when negotiators say “Best and final” they HATE to come back from that at all. Even the act of labeling something “Best and final” hurts ongoing negotiations. I almost never use that phrase, and when I do it has to be my actual final offer. I think they hurt themselves when they say such a thing publicly.
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Yeah just read that, MLBPA feels like MLB set them up by acting like real progress was made so the players could be blamed when it doesn't get resolved today.
SodoMojoDojo on
March 1, 2022 4:53 PM
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Sounds like there is no deal today and likely a delay to Opening Day :(
Region Rats on
March 1, 2022 4:42 PM
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If anyone else wants any extra cash and an extra roster spot, I would be interested in buying your prospects from you.
Region Rats on
March 1, 2022 3:45 PM
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Still a few hours until the deadline. There may still be news tonight.
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I couldn't find any late evening news. I listened to mlbradio, watched mlbtv and checked various sources on Twitter.
Winnetka Cubs on
February 28, 2022 9:09 PM
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I don't think it will be all of April. The national TV contract is jeopardized if the season is under 140 games. But I think there is an outside chance that some of the season might be lost. Today is an important day in regards to negotiations. I'll see if I can dig up some news.
Winnetka Cubs on
February 28, 2022 5:20 PM
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Is anybody else getting the impression the lockout is going to last until May? They are already going leaking stories the owners are prepared to miss all of April. I think those kinds of leaks happen to prepare the public so the news seems old when it officially happens, and to vague public reaction.
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If MLB can get 30% or more of the players to realize MLBPA actually represents the interests of the wealthy, elite players, the cracks will start to show. A lot of players will be lucky just to have a single MLB season. Try telling them to sit tight and not get paid, while they realize this might be the only shot they ever get.
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Imagine behind the scenes at MLBPA meetings - must be the mega-rich players trying to bully the young players into staying in line. Most players will never see a long term contract for $100M+. Once they start losing paycheck, they will get in line. But who knows? I just doubt MLBPA is nearly as unified as they want to seem.
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I’m afraid that there is going to be at least a slight delay into the regular season. What a bunch of dumb a$$e$ the MLBPA is. Even retired MLB player representatives are questioning the players side. Leave it up to these greedy attorneys to muck things up again.
Winnetka Cubs on
February 27, 2022 10:07 AM
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Spring training should be on by now. We have a foot of snow coming tomorrow morning, and I should be snowed in with a beer in my hand watching games in Florida.
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My guess is the MLBPA starts to crack once they start canceling games and the players who haven’t yet earned Millions$ will start to feel the lost wages. The owners can wait the players out. When a Union has such a huge disparity in wealth among members, in-fighting is inevitable. But I still doubt we will have baseball before May.
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I’m definitely not in favor of free cuts. I think part of the fun of the draft is that you’re stuck with what you do in haste on a cold night in February. And I say that as a guy who made a lot of foolish moves in the draft that I would love to reverse.
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You could just cut them onto my team?
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Maybe we can have a special one time only deal where all of us get to make no-penalty cuts?????? I'm mostly joking but maybe we could put it to a vote just in case you see what a great idea it really is?????? Is it really that bad of an idea? It could make things more fun too.
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I'm also open to trades, will update my block shortly
SodoMojoDojo on
February 21, 2022 10:48 PM
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The draft is over, and as usual I have some buyer's remorse. Let me know if you are interested in anyone. I'm always open to trade ideas.
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Laphroaig 10 year.
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Wishing I had some Tractor Blood Orange Cider, but it's only sold in Sante Fe, NM. So it will be H2O for me too
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